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22 minutes ago, WV said:

Yeah ok all made up what ifs again. What is the excess death figure for the 2 years. 

It's another measurement that we've never done before, combining deaths over several virus cycles.  It's at best disingenuous and at worst outright fearmongering. 

I've also already stated that 2020 is not an outlier year for excess deaths.  Many years in the early noughties had more per 100,000 population.  This to me is pretty revealing.  

Edited by leedsvaliant

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1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

Give it a rest, peddling your fake theories.

Yep it's a theory but not necessarily fake.  I might be way off but I suspect some people in government are pretty pissed off with the scientists that forecast armageddon. The recent dropping of restrictions in spite of the outcry seems to me like they've listened to the boy who cried wolf one too many times. 

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86 people died today within 28 days of a covid test.

400 people on average died of cancer today.

1655 people died from other causes today if 2019 numbers are repeated.

The 86 didn't necessarily die from covid and covid may not have been a contributing factor but they had a test.

We have no idea how many died after 29 days or 30 or 31 days

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4 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

It's another measurement that we've never done before, combining deaths over several virus cycles.  It's at best disingenuous and at worst outright fearmongering. 

We have tracked deaths in various categories for years,  life span improving or declining etc, trends etc its just not on the front pages.

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10 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

We have tracked deaths in various categories for years,  life span improving or declining etc, trends etc its just not on the front pages.

Agreed but to my knowledge we've never kept a running total of flu seasons before.  How many years are we going to keep this tally going? 

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6 hours ago, Shropshire_Valiant said:

There's no question covid deaths have been exaggerated on the figures. To what extent who knows but the govt have clearly employed the fear tactic via the media from day 1.  I believe every death where covid can be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc reason on the death certificate are included in the UK figures.  I don't know if it's still the case but some other countries in Europe(perhaps all) don't report the same, just those where covid was the first cause. 

I know of at least 2 locally to me(even in a rural area like Shropshire which has low numbers compared to city areas).  One was a lady who was basically a raging alcoholic, liver shot to pieces and had been in and out of hospital the last 3 months of her life.  She tested positive on the last occasion she went in(with no covid symptoms) and passed away.  Her family were initially questionning the fact she was included as covid death when it clearly wasn't and were told Doctors have been told to put it on if a positive test or even symptoms are present and no positive. 

Magnify that nationally and who knows to what extent as I said above, I guess we will never know?

Obviously covid can exacerbate people's underlying conditions and hasten death in some cases I don't think anyone can deny that, but there has undoubtedly been some "cooking of the books" going on for want of a better phrase.

 

Oh stop it!!!

This virus is the end of mankind!!!!

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5 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

I'm sorry but a virus doesn't play by your cautious nature.  Why do you think vulnerable people have caught it and died?  An airborne virus will find a way unless you hermetically seal yourself from the rest of the world. 

Where are the facts that social distancing reduced cases?  Cases were already on their way down before all previous lockdowns. 

You also have absolutely no proof that loads more people would have died without lockdown. None.  The only real world proof we have of similar nations to ourselves such as Sweden, who took a light touch approach, only closed colleges and didn't close down their economy.  They are now pretty much back to normal having suffered less deaths than the UK and lower than the European average. 

It is common sense that social distancing and lockdown will reduce/slowdown the spread of the SARS-Covid-2 virus. Most probably no controlled trials have been done to definitively prove this as it would be unethical to do so just as no controlled trials have been done to prove that parachutes save lives when jumping from an aeroplane.

However there are reports that social distancing and lockdown have and do slow the spread of the virus but with the availability of vaccines/medicines it is now time to reopen.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/yes-lockdowns-do-help-slow-the-spread-of-covid-19

Also you can't have it both ways, quite rightly question the accuracy of data on numer of Covid cases and deaths but  then using the same flawed data to make a point about Sweden.

5 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Stop listening to these people with mad predictions that keep on being wrong and start living your life freely again. 

Ps. Good to see when I went shopping this morning that mask wearing is now about 50/50. It will continue to decrease as people wake up to the fact that a piece of old rag ain't going to help. 

There are reports/evidence that masks do reduce the spread of the virus and since wearing a mask is such a simple thang to do it makes sense to me for masks to be work in high traffic areas if it is convenient to do so.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

 

 

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

Agreed but to my knowledge we've never kept a running total of flu seasons before.  How many years are we going to keep this tally going? 

I would expect flu deaths to  be tracked to analyse the effectiveness of each years vaccine and whether a factor in excessive deaths when they occur.

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8 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

I would expect flu deaths to  be tracked to analyse the effectiveness of each years vaccine and whether a factor in excessive deaths when they occur.

Absolutely but one season at a time.  Joining them up in a running tally seems odd.

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46 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

It is common sense that social distancing and lockdown will reduce/slowdown the spread of the SARS-Covid-2 virus. Most probably no controlled trials have been done to definitively prove this as it would be unethical to do so just as no controlled trials have been done to prove that parachutes save lives when jumping from an aeroplane.

However there are reports that social distancing and lockdown have and do slow the spread of the virus but with the availability of vaccines/medicines it is now time to reopen.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/yes-lockdowns-do-help-slow-the-spread-of-covid-19

Also you can't have it both ways, quite rightly question the accuracy of data on numer of Covid cases and deaths but  then using the same flawed data to make a point about Sweden.

There are reports/evidence that masks do reduce the spread of the virus and since wearing a mask is such a simple thang to do it makes sense to me for masks to be work in high traffic areas if it is convenient to do so.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

 

 

Keeping people apart will stop a virus from spreading but only if people are hermetically sealed in their homes, which is obviously not possible.  This halfway house has very little impact on spread as people have still got to work, shop, attend medical appointments, emergency services etc. What it does do is provide the potential for many more deaths directly from the effects of lockdown (in spite of what people might try and claim there has still been no cost benefit analysis) and the other much more grave effects that will go on for years and years.  We used a sledgehammer to crack a nut and now the nut is shattered into millions of pieces.  A well managed strategy would have been far more preferable and would ultimately have led to less deaths in the long run. We can only judge by other countries that did sensible strategies, like Sweden, who have never fully locked down or closed their economy.  One only has to look at the current madness in Australia currently. They have sealed themselves off from the world with the aim of zero Covid and are now in a viscous cycle of continual lockdowns.  Even when they have enough people vaccinated they will still open themselves up to lots of trouble as there is very little immunity amongst the population.  They're trapped and yet people wanted us to do the same. 

In terms of masks, the studies you have provided suddenly popped up when the government needed them.  Before that the advice was adamant that they were useless from the WHO to Public Health England.  They are also theoretical models or very small scale studies that have no data significance.  The only large scale real life study conducted in Denmark found no benefits. 

Edited by leedsvaliant
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32 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Not really, shows the trend, highlighting Hong Kong, Swine etc

But then do we get reminded of this figure forever? Why don't we get death figures reported for every other type of death on a daily basis?  Surely it is just feeding the propoganda machine? 

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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/05/statistics-showing-young-people-hospitalised-covid-not-quite/

More economy with the truth from the ministry of magic.  Why has it taken so long for people to start asking questions? 

(To view the full article, refresh the page and press the cross to stop the refresh before the page fully refreshes).

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10 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/05/statistics-showing-young-people-hospitalised-covid-not-quite/

More economy with the truth from the ministry of magic.  Why has it taken so long for people to start asking questions? 

(To view the full article, refresh the page and press the cross to stop the refresh before the page fully refreshes).

Its the torygraph again, they deny climate change is happening as well and probably deny the holocaust because they would be dead by now.

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