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21st June seems reasonable enough to be honest. Any restrictions, testing, masks, distancing, passports or any other funny business after that and I think 22nd June is the day the public try to take over Downing Street and drag them out. Finish them.

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25 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Brilliant, we are allowed studies now, or just ones that fit the argument you are making today. Can’t have it both ways surely? How do I know if this one is correct but the biased lancet and bmj are fake news in the laps of the government? Obviously good news as I’d seen good results but not all that high (see how easy that was to respond to evidence). Read back though, I always argued that AZ was a good vaccine generally and that the attack on it was wrong. Doesn’t really change anything as the shielding has not stopped for all vulnerable people. 
Now how about the source I asked for?
 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Not an ideal source but the lady interviewed is https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19176933.amp/

Lol ok the Bolton news or the actual government?
But let me remind you of what you claimed:

Now we are told that masks and social distancing will continue for at least another year and we'll have a 3rd wave! We told you so....again!”

This is where you end up when you search for any evidence to back up what you want to believe instead if the other way around. And it doesn’t say what you claim. It doesn’t say we will have to, it’s a warning. It doesn’t say we will be made to, and it doesn’t say what the government is saying.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-sets-out-roadmap-to-cautiously-ease-lockdown-restrictions

“It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.” (June 21)

This was your big ‘gotcha...told you so...again’. And it’s just made up. It’s the same every time you try to evidence your claims.

The only thing that could change that is if the death rate goes up like it is in France (who didn’t lockdown like we did). 

In fact I thought you were talking about what valance said in a recent briefing, where he stated to a similar question that guidelines (not laws) that may continue is things like washing your hands, or not going to work when ill. 

 

Edited by Andyregs

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Lol ok the Bolton news or the actual government?
But let me remind you of what you claimed:
“Now we are told that masks and social distancing will continue for at least another year and we'll have a 3rd wave! We told you so....again!”
This is where you end up when you search for any evidence to back up what you want to believe instead if the other way around. And it doesn’t say what you claim. It doesn’t say we will have to, it’s a warning. It doesn’t say we will be made to, and it doesn’t say what the government is saying.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-sets-out-roadmap-to-cautiously-ease-lockdown-restrictions
“It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.” (June 21)
This was your big ‘gotcha...told you so...again’. And it’s just made up. It’s the same every time you try to evidence your claims.
The only thing that could change that is if the death rate goes up like it is in France (who didn’t lockdown like we did). 

In fact I thought you were talking about what valance said in a recent briefing, where he stated to a similar question that guidelines (not laws) that may continue is things like washing your hands, or not going to work when ill. 
 
Just pointing out that when there is a warning like this it usually comes to pass. I have read other similar comments coming from scientists. I guess we'll see come the 21st June won't we, but I very much doubt you'll admit you were wrong.

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Brilliant, we are allowed studies now, or just ones that fit the argument you are making today. Can’t have it both ways surely? How do I know if this one is correct but the biased lancet and bmj are fake news in the laps of the government? Obviously good news as I’d seen good results but not all that high (see how easy that was to respond to evidence). Read back though, I always argued that AZ was a good vaccine generally and that the attack on it was wrong. Doesn’t really change anything as the shielding has not stopped for all vulnerable people. 
Now how about the source I asked for?
 
You wanted evidence to back up my claim that vaccines have nearly 95% efficacy, based on real world data (not putting numbers into excel as you seem to love). I'm not sure what more you want me to do?

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8 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
33 minutes ago, Andyregs said:
Brilliant, we are allowed studies now, or just ones that fit the argument you are making today. Can’t have it both ways surely? How do I know if this one is correct but the biased lancet and bmj are fake news in the laps of the government? Obviously good news as I’d seen good results but not all that high (see how easy that was to respond to evidence). Read back though, I always argued that AZ was a good vaccine generally and that the attack on it was wrong. Doesn’t really change anything as the shielding has not stopped for all vulnerable people. 
Now how about the source I asked for?
 

You wanted evidence to back up my claim that vaccines have nearly 95% efficacy, based on real world data (not putting numbers into excel as you seem to love). I'm not sure what more you want me to do?

And I accept that the vaccines are good vaccines. I haven’t put any numbers into excel, you need to stop making things up.

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11 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
21 minutes ago, Andyregs said:
Lol ok the Bolton news or the actual government?
But let me remind you of what you claimed:
“Now we are told that masks and social distancing will continue for at least another year and we'll have a 3rd wave! We told you so....again!”
This is where you end up when you search for any evidence to back up what you want to believe instead if the other way around. And it doesn’t say what you claim. It doesn’t say we will have to, it’s a warning. It doesn’t say we will be made to, and it doesn’t say what the government is saying.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-sets-out-roadmap-to-cautiously-ease-lockdown-restrictions
“It is hoped all legal limits on social contact can be removed.” (June 21)
This was your big ‘gotcha...told you so...again’. And it’s just made up. It’s the same every time you try to evidence your claims.
The only thing that could change that is if the death rate goes up like it is in France (who didn’t lockdown like we did). 

In fact I thought you were talking about what valance said in a recent briefing, where he stated to a similar question that guidelines (not laws) that may continue is things like washing your hands, or not going to work when ill. 
 

Just pointing out that when there is a warning like this it usually comes to pass. I have read other similar comments coming from scientists. I guess we'll see come the 21st June won't we, but I very much doubt you'll admit you were wrong.

It’s funny how you say ‘you won’t admit that you’re wrong’ when you have just been proven for a fact that you are wrong. 

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And I accept that the vaccines are good vaccines. I haven’t put any numbers into excel, you need to stop making things up.
So therefore you'll accept that there is very little need to continue with these measures even now, nevermind in two months?

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20 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
32 minutes ago, Andyregs said:
It’s funny how you say ‘you won’t admit that you’re wrong’ when you have just been proven for a fact that you are wrong. 

No, you think I'm going to be wrong. There's a big difference.

No, you were wrong. What you said was factually wrong. You’re just changing the point you’re arguing now.

19 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
33 minutes ago, Andyregs said:
And I accept that the vaccines are good vaccines. I haven’t put any numbers into excel, you need to stop making things up.

So therefore you'll accept that there is very little need to continue with these measures even now, nevermind in two months?

No not at all. Amazing how you can make that jump. It would be a neglect if duty if the highest order to be this close to getting on top of the virus to just pack it all in now. It’s complete nonsense. 

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43 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
58 minutes ago, Andyregs said:
And I accept that the vaccines are good vaccines. I haven’t put any numbers into excel, you need to stop making things up.

So therefore you'll accept that there is very little need to continue with these measures even now, nevermind in two months?

What are your thoughts on Brazil? A country that didnt lockdown at all and have had 65000 deaths in March and 330 thousand in total? Still think lockdowns dont work? 

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What are your thoughts on Brazil? A country that didnt lockdown at all and have had 65000 deaths in March and 330 thousand in total? Still think lockdowns dont work? 
We've already had this debate. There are examples with the opposite effect, whereby less or no lockdown has resulted in better outcomes. It's almost as if there is no rhyme or reason to a virus and any attempt to control it are futile and could make things worse.

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5 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
1 hour ago, WV said:
What are your thoughts on Brazil? A country that didnt lockdown at all and have had 65000 deaths in March and 330 thousand in total? Still think lockdowns dont work? 

We've already had this debate. There are examples with the opposite effect, whereby less or no lockdown has resulted in better outcomes. It's almost as if there is no rhyme or reason to a virus and any attempt to control it are futile and could make things worse.

It’s almost as though we should look at a range of countries. Like in the studies you refuse to acknowledge. 

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What's the point in arguing about it? Forget the past, let's come together to focus on the here and now and how we end this madness and move forward. STAND AND DELIVER!

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Dealing with the unknown is difficult, very difficult indeed.  Lockdown is a simple and quick way of slowing the spread of Covid, adopted by most countries with various degrees of severity.  The problem is coming out of it, vaccines reduce the dangers,  test and trace can contain it but it then depends upon whether people can afford to isolate.  What level of sickness and death is acceptable?  

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Dealing with the unknown is difficult, very difficult indeed.  Lockdown is a simple and quick way of slowing the spread of Covid, adopted by most countries with various degrees of severity.  The problem is coming out of it, vaccines reduce the dangers,  test and trace can contain it but it then depends upon whether people can afford to isolate.  What level of sickness and death is acceptable?  
That's a decent summary. Some of the models (although I never pay much mind to guess work) predict around 15k deaths in a potential 3rd wave. In some bad flu seasons, we can see up to 20k deaths. So, do we do as we do with flu and accept that level of death?

The twice weekly testing thing is a colossal waste of money in my eyes. Firstly, who is actually going to take two tests a week if they are not ill, and even if they have got symptoms some people will just shrug it off as a cold. Secondly, if someone does test positive, how many are actually going to isolate for 10 days? Particularly if self employed or with no immediate family help. Sounds like an MPs mate has got their fingers in this one.
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