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5 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

 but as long as you and yours are ok, that's fine.

 

On 19/03/2021 at 08:19, leedsvaliant said:

I am undecided on a vaccine. Not because I believe them to be harmful but I don't see the point. I'm in my late 30s in good health. I have virtually no chance of dying and little chance of becoming seriously ill, so what's the point?

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Why am I bored with this thread. Is it because it’s been hijacked.
It's surely more interesting and healthy to have debate isn't it? I feel the need to put an alternative argument across amidst attacks from pretty much all sides. Interestingly though, some of the contributors in this thread who have actually been directly affected by this are the ones to speak out against the actions. Don't you think that says something? I'm not trying to use this as a basis for argument before Andy pulls me up on it...he is after all the moral leader of this thread and font of truth

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Because they don't want to brush past a stranger in the midst of an international pandemic of an infectious respiratory illness that transmits through the air and has killed at least one member of this very forum. They don't want to be asymptomatic carriers who readily pass it onto others, including the vulnerable they are a support bubble carer for. Hope that helps.
p.s. since you love going on about the 50s Flu pandemic amongst others to compare infection control measures. Were they sheep too?
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No, because they mistakenly believe this to be the plague...which it is not and never was. There are numerous things they could have caught from me that could be troublesome to their health before, yet they didn't try to get run over by avoiding me.

With regards your images, they don't look like the 1950s to me, looks more like the time of the Spanish flu, when there was actual reason to panic. My parents don't even remember the pandemics in the 50s and 60s because they basically didn't have to do anything out of the ordinary. Governments weren't led by a rabid media and supine public back then.

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9 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Completely unrelated. I don't see your point. My actions would not have any effect on anyone else.

You have been told time and time and time again that you can still be an (a)symptomatic carrier even after vaccination.

Quote

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1957.

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1957.
_112288784_62d03665-5057-4230-a334-f2ca440d9666.jpg
But if the most vulnerable are protected then surely that doesn't matter? A report in the US stated today that if you have the jab then you have virtually no chance of dying. Everyone is so hung up on cases, they mean nothing if they don't lead to hospitalisation or death. So, whether someone does or doesn't have the jab has absolutely no bearing on someone who has. That's a vaccines job surely?

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7 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
9 hours ago, Andyregs said:
I wasn’t saying it’s always right (though it does make up part of the scientific consensus). You brought it up and criticised it for being ‘mainstream’ and doing what the government wants it to. All I’m saying, for a non conspiracy theorist, you use a lot of the same language and arguments. 
And no I can’t see the stupidity of following the scientific advice to protect themselves and others. What you’re suggesting is that people should ignore the laws and guidance, which is something you’ve previously denied suggesting. 
As for predictions, Toby Jones, who runs your blog, predicted that there wouldn’t be a second wave. 

No, people should abide by the laws of the land but there is no crime (yet) in free speech. What you're actually supporting is more deaths, more destruction and a terrible future for generations but as long as you and yours are ok, that's fine.

I keep hearing you saying how blindly following the guidance and laws is killing people. Makes people like me stupid and sheep and selfish. Then you tell us you too are following the guidelines and laws when challenged. 

7 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

It's surely more interesting and healthy to have debate isn't it? I feel the need to put an alternative argument across amidst attacks from pretty much all sides. Interestingly though, some of the contributors in this thread who have actually been directly affected by this are the ones to speak out against the actions. Don't you think that says something? I'm not trying to use this as a basis for argument before Andy pulls me up on it...he is after all the moral leader of this thread and font of truth emoji6.png

It does. It’s not a line of debate I’ll go down though.

6 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
6 hours ago, Doha said:
1957.
_112288784_62d03665-5057-4230-a334-f2ca440d9666.jpg

That's a vaccines job surely?

Been reading your favourite blog. They are very anti vaxx aren’t they.

It also gets a mention here:

https://fullfact.org/health/can-we-believe-lockdown-sceptics/

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8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
8 hours ago, Doha said:
1957.
_112288784_62d03665-5057-4230-a334-f2ca440d9666.jpg

But if the most vulnerable are protected then surely that doesn't matter? A report in the US stated today that if you have the jab then you have virtually no chance of dying. Everyone is so hung up on cases, they mean nothing if they don't lead to hospitalisation or death. So, whether someone does or doesn't have the jab has absolutely no bearing on someone who has. That's a vaccines job surely?

Out of 3 lockdowns no one was vaccinated for shall we say 2 and a half of them 

going forward you have a point aslong as the vaccine works there should be no more lockdowns but the last 12 months your making yourself look a little selfish mate 

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Out of 3 lockdowns no one was vaccinated for shall we say 2 and a half of them 
going forward you have a point aslong as the vaccine works there should be no more lockdowns but the last 12 months your making yourself look a little selfish mate 
Again I take umbridge with the selfish part. It's someone's personal choice to be vaccinated or not. I haven't decided yet and no amount of coercion or guilt tripping will make me feel any different. If the vulnerable people are vaccinated then in my opinion that's good enough. I've yet to be convinced why anyone else should, especially children which is just plain wrong.

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Been reading your favourite blog. They are very anti vaxx aren’t they.
It also gets a mention here:
https://fullfact.org/health/can-we-believe-lockdown-sceptics/
There are an unfavourable element on there, I am not denying it. I would say that there are also people on there who are not anti vaccination but are hesitant about these particular vaccines. I personally feel that the vaccine body wouldn't have approved them if they weren't safe, they've been stung before with things like thalidomide. But conversely I can understand vaccine hesitancy on a barely tested drug that's actually not completed its trials yet. It should very much be down to personal choice as it's always been, not people labelled as selfish for not taking it.

Oh and fullfact is a load of crap. It's also been debunked on many occasions despite purporting to be the truth.

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I'm not a law breaker and I'm not willing to pay fines. I'm not saying you are selfish for following the rules. It's just if more people spoke out about this nonsense it would have been over much sooner and not so many additional deaths will/would have occurred and not so many lifes ruined.

I'm just trying to show that actually agreeing with government action is in itself a selfish act as it's basically supporting more deaths and destruction than a lockdown will ever save.

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24 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
31 minutes ago, sunny boslem said:
Out of 3 lockdowns no one was vaccinated for shall we say 2 and a half of them 
going forward you have a point aslong as the vaccine works there should be no more lockdowns but the last 12 months your making yourself look a little selfish mate 

Again I take umbridge with the selfish part. It's someone's personal choice to be vaccinated or not. I haven't decided yet and no amount of coercion or guilt tripping will make me feel any different. If the vulnerable people are vaccinated then in my opinion that's good enough. I've yet to be convinced why anyone else should, especially children which is just plain wrong.

I’m not on about the vaccine if u don’t want it that’s your call 

I’m on about 12 months of in and out of lockdowns that makes the people are against it for me personally and believe me mate I’m never in the house work golf few pints etc look a bit selfish cause they got stay in to protect other people 

 

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

I'm not a law breaker and I'm not willing to pay fines. I'm not saying you are selfish for following the rules. It's just if more people spoke out about this nonsense it would have been over much sooner and not so many additional deaths will/would have occurred and not so many lifes ruined.

I'm just trying to show that actually agreeing with government action is in itself a selfish act as it's basically supporting more deaths and destruction than a lockdown will ever save.

You are aware it is a global pandemic? China enforced one of the strictest lockdowns and they were clear of it before many countries. Maybe lockdown wasn't the issue it just wasn't strict enough and people ignoring it after the Dominic Cummings disaster. 

Edited by WV

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You are aware it is a global pandemic? China enforced one of the strictest lockdowns and they were clear of it before many countries. Maybe lockdown wasn't the issue it just wasn't strict enough and people ignoring it after the Dominic Cummings disaster. 
If it were the case that lockdown worked then surely you'd expect all lockdown countries to have performed relatively well in terms of deaths and all countries and places that didn't lockdown to have performed badly. That just isn't the case.

In fact some of the places with a much stricter lockdown have performed worse.

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