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3 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
7 minutes ago, Mario said:
Ill tell you whose braindead......Those that are dead with covid.

Of course all the other deaths from lockdown don't matter. Nor the future generations, as long as we save a few people now that's ok.

You mean the natural deaths that have always gone on.

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You mean the natural deaths that have always gone on.
No I mean the ones caused by lockdown. You know, not just the ones in the past year, but over the next 5, 10, 20 years, long after Coronavirus is no longer talked about. But they don't matter of course. Livelihoods and families wrecked don't matter either. As long as we've saved enough people now who have lived past the life expectancy, that's ok.

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34 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
42 minutes ago, Mario said:
You mean the natural deaths that have always gone on.

No I mean the ones caused by lockdown. You know, not just the ones in the past year, but over the next 5, 10, 20 years, long after Coronavirus is no longer talked about. But they don't matter of course. Livelihoods and families wrecked don't matter either. As long as we've saved enough people now who have lived past the life expectancy, that's ok.

That’s the most selfish comment I’ve ever read 

my mum is vunarable sold her business and now retired this year she just wants enjoy her last few years 

do u think she has lived her life expectancy?

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That’s the most selfish comment I’ve ever read 
my mum is vunarable sold her business and now retired this year she just wants enjoy her last few years 
do u think she has lived her life expectancy?
Look, I get that and I understand how your fears have been played. Once you get to 80+, the likelihood of you dying of anything is much, much higher and Covid-19 is just another thing. It doesn't make your mum's life any less valuable, but the argument comes down to is her life more valuable than your children or grandchildren or great grandchildren? If you understand statistics, then you'll know that even if your mum caught the virus, the likelihood of her dying is still very small. I have parents in the vulnerable category and a grandparent still living in the very vulnerable category, but they would rather live what remains of their life in freedom and not in fear of the very small chance of dying from Covid-19. They also don't want to ruin the lives of future generations of their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren for the sake of a few extra years of their life.

I think that's the opposite of selfish. Look, although I don't necessarily agree, I can kind of understand hospitals not being overwhelmed, but now that 99% of people most vulnerable to dying have been vaccinated I think it would be massively detrimental to carry on restrictions when most people who are likely to die are protected from dying.

I get that we all have different priorities and concerns, but we've been led to believe that this virus is super deadly. God help us if Ebola ever took hold here or something worse.

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3 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Look, I get that and I understand how your fears have been played. Once you get to 80+, the likelihood of you dying of anything is much, much higher and Covid-19 is just another thing. It doesn't make your mum's life any less valuable, but the argument comes down to is her life more valuable than your children or grandchildren or great grandchildren? If you understand statistics, then you'll know that even if your mum caught the virus, the likelihood of her dying is still very small. I have parents in the vulnerable category and a grandparent still living in the very vulnerable category, but they would rather live what remains of their life in freedom and not in fear of the very small chance of dying from Covid-19. They also don't want to ruin the lives of future generations of their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren for the sake of a few extra years of their life.

I think that's the opposite of selfish. Look, although I don't necessarily agree, I can kind of understand hospitals not being overwhelmed, but now that 99% of people most vulnerable to dying have been vaccinated I think it would be massively detrimental to carry on restrictions when most people who are likely to die are protected from dying.

I get that we all have different priorities and concerns, but we've been led to believe that this virus is super deadly. God help us if Ebola ever took hold here or something worse.

I think most people are happy to go through the last year of restrictions to give the vunarable a chance to get vaccinated 

now that’s happening I agree life has to go back to normal 

my mum is 66 mate and has no immune system due to a kidney transplant as they kill it to stop it rejecting the kidney if she catches COVID she won’t survive so obviously I’m on her side but even she has said we need carry on now and get back to normal nobody including the most vunarable want to live like this can u imagine how terrifying the last 12 month have been for them

hopefully the vaccine will end it 

 

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I think most people are happy to go through the last year of restrictions to give the vunarable a chance to get vaccinated 
now that’s happening I agree life has to go back to normal 
my mum is 66 mate and has no immune system due to a kidney transplant as they kill it to stop it rejecting the kidney if she catches COVID she won’t survive so obviously I’m on her side but even she has said we need carry on now and get back to normal nobody including the most vunarable want to live like this can u imagine how terrifying the last 12 month have been for them
hopefully the vaccine will end it 
 
I totally get that and I have always supported protecting the vulnerable and elderly but as you say, at some point we have to get back to normal.
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2 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
2 hours ago, Mario said:
You mean the natural deaths that have always gone on.

No I mean the ones caused by lockdown. You know, not just the ones in the past year, but over the next 5, 10, 20 years, long after Coronavirus is no longer talked about. But they don't matter of course. Livelihoods and families wrecked don't matter either. As long as we've saved enough people now who have lived past the life expectancy, that's ok.

Even by your standards this is a shocking post. Just let people die that is LVs world. Severe lockdown is going to be what is required to try and stop the latest wave that is sweeping through Europe and many parts of the world 

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Even by your standards this is a shocking post. Just let people die that is LVs world. Severe lockdown is going to be what is required to try and stop the latest wave that is sweeping through Europe and many parts of the world 
You've completely missed the point and my argument. Much of the evidence at the moment suggests that lockdown has very little effect on an endemic virus.

If the vaccine offers the protection that we hope then surely those most likely to die would be protected from doing so? More cases means absolutely nothing unless it translates into hospitilisations and deaths. In fact, more cases means we're closer to the herd immunity that we need.

I don't want to 'let people die'. I'm actually advocating saving a lot more lives and livelihoods in the long term. The 'don't kill granny ' doctrine has really done a number on you hasn't it? I'm sick of being labelled selfish when it's actually people who are so bothered about their own mortality (but hide it under the guise of protecting others) that are being selfish. You've got to look longer term. This will and has had an effect on so many things and will continue to do so long after anyone has ever heard of Covid-19.

I've already said that I have parents and a grandparent in the vulnerable category but fortunately they're grown up enough to understand that worrying about their own mortality is simply putting their lives ahead of those who have yet to have a life. Now that hospitals are unlikely to be overwhelmed (if they ever were) then this is more true than ever.

Where people have been misled is that they think catching Covid-19 is a death sentence. It's simply not true, in fact nowhere near true. Most people are absolutely fine and in fact even the highly vulnerable are mostly fine. I understand the worry of people with vulnerable loved ones but they've been sold the 'mortal danger ' line so much that they're convinced their loved ones will die. Statistically it's just not the case and never has been. It's a nasty respiratory virus, not the black death as has been painted in the media. We've had them before and we'll have them again. It's the unprecedented response to this that has set it apart.

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And just to add to that, what's the point of the vaccine if it doesn't stop all this madness? Surely breaking the chain of hospitalisations puts this alongside other viruses that we have learned to live with for hundreds of years. People are going to get angry if it comes to June 21st and all this nonsense isn't removed.

Fortunately, people like Mary aren't in charge of public policy. If she wants to hide in a dark cellar with 10 masks on for the next few years she can be my guest, while the rest of us get on with our lives. The fact that there are people that would support her viewpoint is the frightening thing.

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3 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

And just to add to that, what's the point of the vaccine if it doesn't stop all this madness? Surely breaking the chain of hospitalisations puts this alongside other viruses that we have learned to live with for hundreds of years. People are going to get angry if it comes to June 21st and all this nonsense isn't removed.

Fortunately, people like Mary aren't in charge of public policy. If she wants to hide in a dark cellar with 10 masks on for the next few years she can be my guest, while the rest of us get on with our lives. The fact that there are people that would support her viewpoint is the frightening thing.

Will you have the jab ?

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Will you have the jab ?
Probably, yes. I'm not fully convinced that I actually need it or me taking it makes a difference to others. I'm yet to be given a compelling argument but if it means that I can help stop this madness sooner then so be it. My argument really all along is with lockdown as a means of dealing with a pandemic. Not all us lockdown sceptics are anti vaccination and it's one of the few areas that the government has got right.

I have no concerns over its safety though and I understand why you would want it as an elderly or highly vulnerable person. Some lockdown sceptics have literally no trust in anything and in my view the anti vaccination group would be anti even if it was proved beyond doubt that these were safe.

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2 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Probably, yes. I'm not fully convinced that I actually need it or me taking it makes a difference to others. I'm yet to be given a compelling argument. My argument really all along is with lockdown as a means of dealing with a pandemic. Not all us lockdown sceptics are anti vaccination and it's one of the few areas that the government has got right.

I have no concerns over its safety though and I understand why you would want it as an elderly or highly vulnerable person.

Reports are coming out it’s definitely helping with transmissions 

 

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1 minute ago, leedsvaliant said:

Probably, yes. I'm not fully convinced that I actually need it or me taking it makes a difference to others. I'm yet to be given a compelling argument. My argument really all along is with lockdown as a means of dealing with a pandemic. Not all us lockdown sceptics are anti vaccination and it's one of the few areas that the government has got right.

I have no concerns over its safety though and I understand why you would want it as an elderly or highly vulnerable person.

Hedging your bets then......Good tactic. be interesting your discussion with the Dr on the covid ward if you got it and I hope you dont and you needed ventilating. 

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Hedging your bets then......Good tactic. be interesting your discussion with the Dr on the covid ward if you got it and I hope you dont and you needed ventilating. 
I think I'll be fine but thanks for your concern. I understand probability and risk you see.
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Just now, leedsvaliant said:
2 minutes ago, Mario said:
Hedging your bets then......Good tactic. be interesting your discussion with the Dr on the covid ward if you got it and I hope you dont and you needed ventilating. 

I think I'll be fine but thanks for your concern. I understand probability and risk you see.

The very best of good luck and I hope you dont need it.

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The very best of good luck and I hope you dont need it.
Thanks. I'll take my risk of a 0.0006% chance of dying from Covid-19. In fact, while I'm at it, I won't walk along the canal this afternoon, just in case I fall in and drown and I also won't take an umbrella with me just in case I get struck by lightning.

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