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7 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:
7 hours ago, geosname said:
That's an unanswerable question/statement I hope we never have to confront.

It's the thing that frightens me the most to be honest. At some point there has to be a line drawn in the sand that says 'enough ' and we have to accept that there will still be deaths, just as we do with flu. We can't just merely exist forever and both old and young I think would agree to that.

There will come a time when that happens. Hence why this lockdown is needed to get enough vulnerable and elderly people vaccinated so that everyone can move on with their lives. 

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If the general public are expected to follow the rules the rules have to be as simple as possible and crystal clear.
Everyone must wear a mask...... is a simple enough rule on the surface.... when you throw in exemptions it starts to get cloudy.
If you have a medical reason not to wear a mask you are exempt...... however.... the police, security or staff can not make you prove you have an exemption, you simply have to state you have one. 
If the shop refuses you service because you don't wear a mask it could be discrimination. If the police arrest you or impose a penalty for not wearing a mask it could be far more serious.
That's a simple rule made complicated by enforcement. 
Simple, if you can't wear a mask, isolate and someone else has to do your shopping.
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53 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
1 hour ago, Andyregs said:
Completely missed my point. Why would the government do that though? After everything has opened up and gone back to normal, any lockdown again? What’s the motivation! They are no longer ‘in too deep’, as you say. Again, your reasoning here is missing a piece of the jigsaw, and it makes me question that perhaps you aren’t saying everything you believe because you know it’s going to sound silly. Especially given the website you get your information from. 

Then why would the CMO say it?

You are answering my question by asking the same question I asked you? Again, its seems you are avoiding saying everything . 

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Along with wasting billions on a track and trace system that's no fit for purpose and not following their own rules demonstrating a lack of care, this is the main reason this government has been such a failure during this crisis.

Lockdown rules in England have been changed at least 64 times by the government since the start of the coronavirus pandemic, a human rights barrister has calculated, amid growing calls for clearer guidance for the public.

They have completely failed to create a simple, clear set of guidelines.

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22 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Along with wasting billions on a track and trace system that's no fit for purpose and not following their own rules demonstrating a lack of care, this is the main reason this government has been such a failure during this crisis.

Lockdown rules in England have been changed at least 64 times by the government since the start of the coronavirus pandemic, a human rights barrister has calculated, amid growing calls for clearer guidance for the public.

They have completely failed to create a simple, clear set of guidelines.

Stay at home IC.😉

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2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
5 hours ago, geosname said:
If the general public are expected to follow the rules the rules have to be as simple as possible and crystal clear.
Everyone must wear a mask...... is a simple enough rule on the surface.... when you throw in exemptions it starts to get cloudy.
If you have a medical reason not to wear a mask you are exempt...... however.... the police, security or staff can not make you prove you have an exemption, you simply have to state you have one. 
If the shop refuses you service because you don't wear a mask it could be discrimination. If the police arrest you or impose a penalty for not wearing a mask it could be far more serious.
That's a simple rule made complicated by enforcement. 

Simple, if you can't wear a mask, isolate and someone else has to do your shopping.

And your job and your exercise?

If it were only that simple I'm sure Labour would have already suggested it.

A secret army of shoppers who can only go out once a day?

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Love how you’ve now gone to the extreme of long term symptoms being a life changing disability....
The reason vulnerable and elderly people are scared is because this virus is killing them. It’s as simple as that. It’s not an overreaction. 
Agreed. It's dangerous to the elderly and vulnerable, as are many illnesses. What I was saying is that if people understood their personal risk then perhaps we wouldn't see the daily death porn and hysteria. Even in the most vulnerable categories, the chances of you catching and then dying from this disease are much, much less than catching it and not dying. That's not trying to downplay the nature of it, and the vulnerable are right to be cautious, just as I am around the elderly if I have a cold. From the start the CMO said that most people, the vast majority, will have mild to moderate symptoms and that still remains true but it's been lost.

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31 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
51 minutes ago, geosname said:
And your job and your exercise?
If it were only that simple I'm sure Labour would have already suggested it.
A secret army of shoppers who can only go out once a day?

It is that simple.

You have a very simple view of people mate.

Do you restrict essential workers who can't wear masks?

I've lived in areas where I didn't have a relative within the "local area" to do my shopping or bring me essentials.

I lived in Hanley for a number of years and I didn't know who my neighbours were. I didn't need to know I didn't want to know there was no reason to know.

My mother lived on a council estate for over 50 years, at the end she didn't know any of her neighbours. When she fell in her street only one person offered help, although many witnessed the incident. A young Indian lady helped her up and to her door but wasn't allowed in. She later brought her food which was imediately binned (Foreign muck)... my mother was a racist.

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53 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
3 hours ago, Andyregs said:
You are answering my question by asking the same question I asked you? Again, its seems you are avoiding saying everything . 

Why would the CMO say that we might need more restrictions next winter? It's a pretty simple question.

That’s not an answer, that’s a question. He’s saying it because he feels it may be necessary to save lives but we just don’t know yet. Now answer yourself? Why would he suggest that if we have reopened and it’s obvious everything is fine? There’s gaps in your logic here, and you’re either missing that part kit because you know it’s conspiracy or you haven’t thought it through.

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1 hour ago, geosname said:

You have a very simple view of people mate.

Do you restrict essential workers who can't wear masks?

I've lived in areas where I didn't have a relative within the "local area" to do my shopping or bring me essentials.

I lived in Hanley for a number of years and I didn't know who my neighbours were. I didn't need to know I didn't want to know there was no reason to know.

My mother lived on a council estate for over 50 years, at the end she didn't know any of her neighbours. When she fell in her street only one person offered help, although many witnessed the incident. A young Indian lady helped her up and to her door but wasn't allowed in. She later brought her food which was imediately binned (Foreign muck)... my mother was a racist.

Click and collect exists nowadays. As do many grocery delivery services. 

 

If you cannot wear a mask then you are most likely to be vulnerable to covid. So stay in. Its that simple. 

 

Edited by WV

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

. From the start the CMO said that most people, the vast majority, will have mild to moderate symptoms and that still remains true but it's been lost.

And if you are showing mild to moderate symptoms and are not staying in you are directly responsible for the deaths of those more vulnerable. 

 

Also LV if the vast majority were infected at once the hospitals would collapse. Which is why we are in lockdown. To stop that happening. Jesus this is hard work! 

 

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When you consistently use false figures to prove a point that is dangerous. 

Comparing long covid to a munchausen syndrome is bizarre. 

Getting your facts from debunked sources and spreading them online is again dangerous. Fake news!

Where is the proof that a lockdown will cause more deaths than it would save? Is this other patients missing treatment? Dont you think the hospitals would be overwhelmed and those people would be more likely to miss treatment because of covid? Suicides? Well using the logic of LV and other covid conspiracy nuts won't these people kill themselves anyway in the future? (Just like the people who have lived over average age of death keeps getting rolled out) 

 

I think the government are highly incompetent and have done an awful job of covid but it would have been a hell of a lot worse without any lockdown or social distancing measures. Can you even argue that point its ridiculous.  

 

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21 minutes ago, WV said:

Click and collect exists nowadays. As do many grocery delivery services. 

 

If you cannot wear a mask then you are most likely to be vulnerable to covid. So stay in. Its that simple. 

 

Sadly stores are discontinuing the click and collect and delivery services are getting overloaded.

I wasn't arguing for or against masks. I was giving an example of a simple rule that's not quite as simple when you apply it.

If an enforcement officer only wears a mask when leaving the vehicle isn't everything in the vehicle possibly contaminated? Even the ticket he hands you for suposedly breaching the rules?

Your simple rule, if you dont/can't wear a mask stay indoors, is fine.... if it applies to everyone...... should footballers wear masks when they play?

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When you consistently use false figures to prove a point that is dangerous. 
Comparing long covid to a munchausen syndrome is bizarre. 
Getting your facts from debunked sources and spreading them online is again dangerous. Fake news!
Where is the proof that a lockdown will cause more deaths than it would save? Is this other patients missing treatment? Dont you think the hospitals would be overwhelmed and those people would be more likely to miss treatment because of covid? Suicides? Well using the logic of LV and other covid conspiracy nuts won't these people kill themselves anyway in the future? (Just like the people who have lived over average age of death keeps getting rolled out) 
 
I think the government are highly incompetent and have done an awful job of covid but it would have been a hell of a lot worse without any lockdown or social distancing measures. Can you even argue that point its ridiculous.  
 
I wouldn't call the UN world food programme or Bristol university unreliable.

A lot of the data analysis is direct from the NHS.

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When you consistently use false figures to prove a point that is dangerous. 
Comparing long covid to a munchausen syndrome is bizarre. 
Getting your facts from debunked sources and spreading them online is again dangerous. Fake news!
Where is the proof that a lockdown will cause more deaths than it would save? Is this other patients missing treatment? Dont you think the hospitals would be overwhelmed and those people would be more likely to miss treatment because of covid? Suicides? Well using the logic of LV and other covid conspiracy nuts won't these people kill themselves anyway in the future? (Just like the people who have lived over average age of death keeps getting rolled out) 
 
I think the government are highly incompetent and have done an awful job of covid but it would have been a hell of a lot worse without any lockdown or social distancing measures. Can you even argue that point its ridiculous.  
 
Equally, where is the proof that lockdown will save more lives than it costs? This works both ways.

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