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3 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
5 minutes ago, Doha said:
The point is you transmit it to others who will. Fcks sake. 

But if they've been vaccinated then where is the danger to them ffs

Ah right, so now you think a CV19 vaccine is warranted? 

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Ah right, so now you think a CV19 vaccine is warranted? 
I've just said that it could be argued that those in the vulnerable category and those over 70 could benefit. Whether it's necessary is arguable but as with the flu vaccine it is justifiable. For anyone under 60 with no health conditions, there's literally no point. Interesting that you didn't pick up on the fact that if the old and vulnerable have been vaccinated then there's no point in anyone else having it.

We're back to people having no grasp on risk to their own mortality.



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>I've just said that it could be argued that those in the vulnerable category and those over 70 could benefit.

Not here you haven't. 

>I don't think vaccines are warranted over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people

>But if they've been vaccinated then where is the danger to them ffs

Make your mind up. 

>For anyone under 60 with no health conditions, there's literally no point.

UK CV19 deaths in under 60s with no preexisting conditions in a 3 month period May-June : 542.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnopreexistinghealthconditionsunder60

542 people. A full away terrace of Vale fans. Many thousands of relatives. Bet they wish they had it available. Nah, no point though eh. 

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions

Quote

According to the FDA, most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce viral transmission by those who are vaccinated, and there is reason for optimism that the current wave of COVID vaccines will, as well. Most notably, Moderna’s vaccine trial showed some reduction in asymptomatic infections as measured through nasal swabs, which could suggest reduced transmission after vaccination.

 

It's not all about you. 

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>I've just said that it could be argued that those in the vulnerable category and those over 70 could benefit.
Not here you haven't. 
>I don't think vaccines are warranted over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people
>But if they've been vaccinated then where is the danger to them ffs
Make your mind up. 
>For anyone under 60 with no health conditions, there's literally no point.
UK CV19 deaths in under 60s with no preexisting conditions in a 3 month period May-June : 542.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnopreexistinghealthconditionsunder60
542 people. A full away terrace of Vale fans. Many thousands of relatives. Bet they wish they had it available. Nah, no point though eh. 
https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions
According to the FDA, most vaccines that protect from viral illnesses also reduce viral transmission by those who are vaccinated, and there is reason for optimism that the current wave of COVID vaccines will, as well. Most notably, Moderna’s vaccine trial showed some reduction in asymptomatic infections as measured through nasal swabs, which could suggest reduced transmission after vaccination.
 
It's not all about you. 
542 people in 3 months. 1600 people die each day. 10,000 people a week, 120,000 people die in a 3 month period. Less than 0.5% of all deaths in that period. I wouldn't put money on it if those odds came up.


Without looking, I'd imagine that people aged below 60 have more chance of dying of virtually anything else other than Covid.

Again, perspective needed.

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Fck me sideways.

THEY ARE PREVENTABLE DEATHS. They are not inevitable old age deaths. They are preventable by vaccination. 

It is no skin off your nose to get a free vaccination.

But you don't see the point, because it doesn't affect you personally. Me me me me me. Until it does. 

 

 

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Fck me sideways.
THEY ARE PREVENTABLE DEATHS. They are not inevitable old age deaths. They are preventable by vaccination. 
It is no skin off your nose to get a free vaccination.
But you don't see the point, because it doesn't affect you personally. Me me me me me. Until it does. 
 
 
Do you get the flu vaccine?

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Yes I do. My only preexisting condition is a pathological hatred of Stoke fans and yet Influenza has hospitalised me before. It can happen to anyone. 
So therefore you'll understand that not everybody gets the flu vaccine (or is even offered it), but yet health people under 60 still die from it. So your theory suggests that everyone, healthy or not, should get the flu jab each year? Why have we never done that on the off chance that a very tiny minority of healthy people will die from it?

In my view, if you want to get the jab and it's on offer then go for it, irrelevant of age. If it ends this show sooner then I'm in for anything. I'm just saying that you can't prevent every single death as seems to be the aim. I may have inadvertently passed on a virus to someone in the past which has killed them, but I never thought about getting a jab for it, wear a mask or not see my family properly for over a year.

I understand why you fall on the narrative side of the argument, because you are vulnerable and have been petrified by a relentless propoganda machine of tales of disaster and the whole world panicking. Take a step back...where are the bodies lining the streets? Where are the relentless ambulances back and forth to the hospital? If the virus was so transmissable, why was there little evidence of it in the summer? Before you say 'because lockdown!' I'll remind you that the Lancet study showed very little impact on mortality. If you look at the most stringent lockdowns vs the most lax, the curve is virtually the same. A virus does what it does and our government and scientists are so arrogant that they think like Canute that they can stop the tide. People simply don't question it.

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Quote

because you are vulnerable and have been petrified by a relentless propoganda machine 

crackpot you lad :laugh:

>So your theory suggests that everyone, healthy or not, should get the flu jab each year?

Should? In public health terms, yes.  People should also not smoke. Should != must. It would help dramatically beat it, and it's propensity to mutate, down. Remind me again what happened to Polio and Smallpox?

>where are the bodies lining the streets? 

Sorry, did the scenes in Italy and NY and elsewhere around the world not happen? Do you think this is normal and tolerable?

 

image.png.c28612cfb9de23be0778a129fdfa623e.png

 

image.png.ea2f9251dad3b5dc883caf4538f8811e.png

image.thumb.png.3974c40bcf1414c74f390d92f5d16564.png

image.thumb.png.fae947a8af47ad51fe2f6d60c3cef14d.png

image.png.807c75558122347066b50f6850f4f198.png

image.png

 

>Where are the relentless ambulances back and forth to the hospital?

Queueing up outside because the capacity is swamped with CV19 patients. 

image.png.eed37edfe453f6aa32da2a6aff6c357d.png

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Doha

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because you are vulnerable and have been petrified by a relentless propoganda machine 
crackpot you lad 
>So your theory suggests that everyone, healthy or not, should get the flu jab each year?
Should? In public health terms, yes.  People should also not smoke. Should != must. It would help dramatically beat it, and it's propensity to mutate, down. Remind me again what happened to Polio and Smallpox?
>where are the bodies lining the streets? 
Sorry, did the scenes in Italy and NY and elsewhere around the world not happen? Do you think this is normal and tolerable?
 
image.png.c28612cfb9de23be0778a129fdfa623e.png
 
image.png.ea2f9251dad3b5dc883caf4538f8811e.png
image.thumb.png.3974c40bcf1414c74f390d92f5d16564.png
image.thumb.png.fae947a8af47ad51fe2f6d60c3cef14d.png
image.png.807c75558122347066b50f6850f4f198.png
image.thumb.png.1f3d813c968bdaf3f532224ba18d9763.png
 
>Where are the relentless ambulances back and forth to the hospital?
Queueing up outside because the capacity is swamped with CV19 patients. 
image.png.eed37edfe453f6aa32da2a6aff6c357d.png
 
 
 
 
 
These images don't mean anything. Are those army trucks full of bodies? Is there normally ambulances outside Birmingham at this time of year? There's only been just over a million deaths worldwide out of a population of 7 billion, so I'd be highly sceptical of those sorts of propoganda style images. We've had fridge temporary mortuaries outside our hospitals in many winters but it was barely a footnote in the news.

Smallpox and polio are very rare examples of diseases being eradicated, many viruses you can never get rid of.

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5 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

crackpot you lad emoji23.png
>So your theory suggests that everyone, healthy or not, should get the flu jab each year?
Should? In public health terms, yes.  People should also not smoke. Should != must. It would help dramatically beat it, and it's propensity to mutate, down. Remind me again what happened to Polio and Smallpox?
>where are the bodies lining the streets? 
Sorry, did the scenes in Italy and NY and elsewhere around the world not happen? Do you think this is normal and tolerable?
 
image.png.c28612cfb9de23be0778a129fdfa623e.png
 
image.png.ea2f9251dad3b5dc883caf4538f8811e.png
image.thumb.png.3974c40bcf1414c74f390d92f5d16564.png
image.thumb.png.fae947a8af47ad51fe2f6d60c3cef14d.png
image.png.807c75558122347066b50f6850f4f198.png
image.thumb.png.1f3d813c968bdaf3f532224ba18d9763.png
 
>Where are the relentless ambulances back and forth to the hospital?
Queueing up outside because the capacity is swamped with CV19 patients. 
image.png.eed37edfe453f6aa32da2a6aff6c357d.png
 
 
 
 
 
These images don't mean anything. Are those army trucks full of bodies? Is there normally ambulances outside Birmingham at this time of year? There's only been just over a million deaths worldwide out of a population of 7 billion, so I'd be highly sceptical of those sorts of propoganda style images. We've had fridge temporary mortuaries outside our hospitals in many winters but it was barely a footnote in the news.

Smallpox and polio are very rare examples of diseases being eradicated, many viruses you can never get rid of.

I will attempt to respond to your post.

Are you suggesting the army were instructed to bring in multiple coffins in a propaganda scare tactic?

There has ONLY been 1,000,000 deaths is misleading..... there have been an EXTRA 1,000,000 deaths in a very short period.

Should people have a vaccine that could prevent them from dying or spreading a virus that could infect, and possibly kill, others?..... that should be up to the individual, I don't think they should be forced to.

I would imagine that priority for the vaccine would be given to the people most likely to suffer the serious effects of the virus and to key workers so they can continue their work.

I agree there is some discrepancies in the general information available i.e. the number of deaths from covid v the number of deaths with covid, also similarly the hospital figures and that the general amalgamation of the figures can mislead but your suggestion, even if only implied, that it's not serious is a bit "out there".

I've criticised the government previously for their incompetence dealing with the virus, it's transmission, protection etc. It's been abysmal.

It appears to me, if im reading your posts correctly, you are verging on the fanatical.

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8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Edit:some scientists believe...not all. Mike Yeadon has a theory based on his knowledge of how a virus works. He has exactly the same education, experience and credentials as Vallance. He rightly points out that viruses don't come in waves. This second wave is simply the effect of suppressing it in March last year. The Spanish flu wasn't the same virus, it was two different viruses in consecutive years. His belief of protecting the most vulnerable to allow for herd immunity is what should have happened all along.

I don't think vaccines are warranted over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people. As with flu, there is justification for those who are vulnerable or old, but for me, what's the point? I have literally no chance of dying.

You're also putting full trust in the results of a highly unreliable PCR test. It can pick up 'literally anything you want it to ' quote by the inventor. Yeadon argues that this is a casedemic and his argument is pretty persuasive.

Yeadon has been debunked, not only by scientific consensus but also by reality. He said the pandemic was over in the summer. Anyone who isn’t trying to purposely spread misinformation can see he was wrong. Trying to argue otherwise makes you sound like the idiots trying to argue that trump won the American election. 

8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:


Isn't it obvious to you by the amount of people who are actively breaking or bending the rules that people have realised this is not the plague? Whilst you continue to hide behind the settee, most people want to get on with their lives, in the knowledge that even the most vulnerable have a 90+% chance of not dying.

 

It’s obvious that some people are selfish, and reading a blog or social media post to justify it. I’m not ‘hiding behind the settee’, I’m trying not to kill people.. 

8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

I've just said that it could be argued that those in the vulnerable category and those over 70 could benefit. Whether it's necessary is arguable but as with the flu vaccine it is justifiable. For anyone under 60 with no health conditions, there's literally no point. Interesting that you didn't pick up on the fact that if the old and vulnerable have been vaccinated then there's no point in anyone else having it.

We're back to people having no grasp on risk to their own mortality.


 

You’re now dabbling with anti vax nonsense. Your ‘logic’ could be used against many diseases which for which vaccines save millions of lives each year. 
You didn’t say you were going to refuse to have it though? I’m reading more of Michael Yeadon. He has also said that half of the population is immune to COVID and we have reached herd immunity because of the common cold. Are you really putting your faith in this guy over the consensus of them scientific community around the world? When a simple vaccine and face mask could possible save so many people. I saw in the news today that Some people in New Zealand had a lockdown protest whilst flying trump flags and claiming their prime minister was a communist. Sometimes it’s worth looking around and seeing what company you’re keeping and who shares your belief. 
Ultimately you don’t want lockdown under any circumstance and you’re looking for reasons to back that up. The thing is, if you look hard enough, you can find arguments to back any crazy conspiracy. 
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/a-rise-in-the-number-of-covid-19-cases-and-deaths-starting-in-september-2020-contradicts-the-claim-by-michael-yeadon-that-the-pandemic-is-fundamentally-over-in-the-u-k/

Edited by Andyregs
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Over 1.8 million deaths worldwide reported and that’s if the figure is to believed, is there really as few deaths in Africa as reported where medical help is often not obtainable. AIDS is the next worst pandemic in the last 50 years and even at its worst year there was only 1 million that died. The thing is if the world did nothing and carried on as Leeds Valiant would have us do how many more deaths would there be. LV is stating there is 1600 deaths a day and we should be carrying on as normal yet we are seeing over 1000 a deaths a day from Covid and that is with a lockdown! . In LVs world we would easily be doubling the normal death rate and just because the chances of him dying is very low.

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1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

Over 1.8 million deaths worldwide reported and that’s if the figure is to believed, is there really as few deaths in Africa as reported where medical help is often not obtainable. AIDS is the next worst pandemic in the last 50 years and even at its worst year there was only 1 million that died. The thing is if the world did nothing and carried on as Leeds Valiant would have us do how many more deaths would there be. LV is stating there is 1600 deaths a day and we should be carrying on as normal yet we are seeing over 1000 a deaths a day from Covid and that is with a lockdown! . In LVs world we would easily be doubling the normal death rate and just because the chances of him dying is very low.

Maybe the warmer climate has something to do with  fewer deaths in Africa, less air travel compared to the US and Europe? Lockdown is only a temporary measure  until enough people have been vaccinated, and continue to be vaccinated,  to reduce the death rates to an acceptable level. Hopefully the vaccines can keep pace with variants in the virus.  Travel restrictions are more likely to be used more effectively in the future.

 

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11 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

A virus does what it does and our government and scientists are so arrogant that they think like Canute that they can stop the tide. People simply don't question it.

A serious misunderstanding of history there LV which actually undermines your argument!!

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27 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Maybe the warmer climate has something to do with  fewer deaths in Africa, less air travel compared to the US and Europe? Lockdown is only a temporary measure  until enough people have been vaccinated, and continue to be vaccinated,  to reduce the death rates to an acceptable level. Hopefully the vaccines can keep pace with variants in the virus.  Travel restrictions are more likely to be used more effectively in the future.

 

Agree, the warmer climate will help plus the lifetime expectancy is a lot lower than the average death age of Covid in the U.K. but take South Africa as an example who have the best health care of any African country yet they have only recorded 33000 deaths to Covid which is more than any other African country by some bit, they have had hospitals over full with Covid patients for months, strikes by health workers because of being over worked and despite having the best healthcare in Africa less than 20% have access to free healthcare so it does ask the question what is the true figure of deaths and how does a country with the best healthcare report a far higher death count than other countries in the same continent and with only 20% with access to free healthcare is the figure of 33,000 really accurate?

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