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But what ‘side’ is the bmj and nhs on if not trying to make sure people don’t die and the nhs isn’t overwhelmed. Their ‘interpretation’ is based on what is actually happening in the hospitals he runs. You can’t get anymore in context than that. 
Who is dying? What are they actually dying from? What did they go into hospital with? How is the reduction of beds/staff affecting things? What about flu? Pneumonia? Are they normal for this time of year? They're all valid questions that I don't think are being answered.

I think Covid-19 is conpounding long standing issues with the NHS that are never addressed and if hospitals are overwhelmed then it's a failing of the government but also the very chiefs who are telling everything is going wrong. They've had 9 months, why are they not prepared? I suspect there's a bit of blame deflection here.

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39 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Who is dying? What are they actually dying from? What did they go into hospital with? How is the reduction of beds/staff affecting things? What about flu? Pneumonia? Are they normal for this time of year? They're all valid questions that I don't think are being answered.

I think Covid-19 is conpounding long standing issues with the NHS that are never addressed and if hospitals are overwhelmed then it's a failing of the government but also the very chiefs who are telling everything is going wrong. They've had 9 months, why are they not prepared? I suspect there's a bit of blame deflection here.
 

Add on the Vaccine distribution, surely this could have been planned in the summer in readiness for its eventual availability.  Hospital staff don`t grow on trees unlike money, so pre-vaccine hospital demand can only be contained by limiting the spread of the virus by lockdowns as people otherwise mingle too much especially when encouraged to eat out and travel to universities.   Once out of control growth becomes exponential  with devastating consequences. 

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Add on the Vaccine distribution, surely this could have been planned in the summer in readiness for its eventual availability.  Hospital staff don`t grow on trees unlike money, so pre-vaccine hospital demand can only be contained by limiting the spread of the virus by lockdowns as people otherwise mingle too much especially when encouraged to eat out and travel to universities.   Once out of control growth becomes exponential  with devastating consequences. 
Definitely. I thought Astra Zeneca were manufacturing before they even trialled it? What happened to these stocks? Can't more people be deployed to check the batches..I understand it's a necessity to check safety but surely this process can be speeded up?

Can't we deliver 5 million doses a week? And if not, why not? Why haven't we already got a massive team of trained injection givers? It's giving an injection, not brain surgery. We should be doing it 24/7. If this is so dangerous, then why aren't we using every hour of every day to vaccine everybody?

I appreciate that logistics are difficult but we've had 9 months. People should have been working day and night to get this in place. It seems that we're getting it in place now.

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7 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

Definitely. I thought Astra Zeneca were manufacturing before they even trialled it? What happened to these stocks? Can't more people be deployed to check the batches..I understand it's a necessity to check safety but surely this process can be speeded up?

Can't we deliver 5 million doses a week? And if not, why not? Why haven't we already got a massive team of trained injection givers? It's giving an injection, not brain surgery. We should be doing it 24/7. If this is so dangerous, then why aren't we using every hour of every day to vaccine everybody?

I appreciate that logistics are difficult but we've had 9 months. People should have been working day and night to get this in place. It seems that we're getting it in place now.

I saw a tweet mentioning that there are strict conditions imposed by the MHRA when they approved it. They are testing each batch of the vaccine which is restricting the available doses. Whether or not we're shifting 100% of the MHRA capacity, I don't know.

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5 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Then tell me why you think the bmj and the boss of the nhs are purposely misleading the population?

I’m sure that data is available. But to give a broad idea of how the virus is spreading, amount of positive cases is an obvious starting point. I’m not sure what you’re arguing for here, but that’s not a new thing. 

Im neither arguing for or against anything.

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17 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I saw a tweet mentioning that there are strict conditions imposed by the MHRA when they approved it. They are testing each batch of the vaccine which is restricting the available doses. Whether or not we're shifting 100% of the MHRA capacity, I don't know.

Batch testing is supposed to take around 20 days. I don't know exactly what goes on during the testing but there probably can't be short cuts. I don't think that increasing capacity can cut the time but it can mean that a greater number of batches can be tested concurrently. Some lead times are just inevitable.

Whether we have enough capacity and materials in the UK to produce the grade of glass vials needed and whether this could have started months ago, I don't know.

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9 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

Who is dying? What are they actually dying from? What did they go into hospital with? How is the reduction of beds/staff affecting things? What about flu? Pneumonia? Are they normal for this time of year? They're all valid questions that I don't think are being answered.

I think Covid-19 is conpounding long standing issues with the NHS that are never addressed and if hospitals are overwhelmed then it's a failing of the government but also the very chiefs who are telling everything is going wrong. They've had 9 months, why are they not prepared? I suspect there's a bit of blame deflection here.
 

So the boss of the nhs (and the countless doctors and nurses) is conspiring with the bjm, the media and the government (and opposition) to overstate the dangers of a pandemic in order to cover up issues with the nhs. And you tell me you aren’t a conspiracy theorist? 

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So the boss of the nhs (and the countless doctors and nurses) is conspiring with the bjm, the media and the government (and opposition) to overstate the dangers of a pandemic in order to cover up issues with the nhs. And you tell me you aren’t a conspiracy theorist? 
Why do you insist on putting words into my mouth?

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:
11 hours ago, Andyregs said:
So the boss of the nhs (and the countless doctors and nurses) is conspiring with the bjm, the media and the government (and opposition) to overstate the dangers of a pandemic in order to cover up issues with the nhs. And you tell me you aren’t a conspiracy theorist? 

Why do you insist on putting words into my mouth?

So tell me why you think nhs and bmj (along side the government, opposition and media) are purposely misleading the public. The closest you have come has been to say ‘there is a bit of deflection’. Even the most crazy conspiracy theories have a reason for their existence. But I’ve yet to hear anything close to explaining why all these people (around the world) are all misleading us (apart from the crazies but you say that’s not it). 

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So tell me why you think nhs and bmj (along side the government, opposition and media) are purposely misleading the public. The closest you have come has been to say ‘there is a bit of deflection’. Even the most crazy conspiracy theories have a reason for their existence. But I’ve yet to hear anything close to explaining why all these people (around the world) are all misleading us (apart from the crazies but you say that’s not it). 
I've never said they're doing it deliberately or there's any nefarious reason behind it. I'm sure that there are some incredibly difficult situations in London. I'm simply stating that there are different ways of interpreting the data. You seem to insinuate lots of things without much substance.

Just a question ..are you at all concerned that vaccines are not the end of all this? For instance would you accept a Vale game next year where you can't sit where you want and we are only allowed at home games? The supporters of this seem to think that if we keep doing this then things will be fine. It's becoming apparent that the vaccine isn't the end.

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22 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I've never said they're doing it deliberately or there's any nefarious reason behind it. I'm sure that there are some incredibly difficult situations in London. I'm simply stating that there are different ways of interpreting the data. You seem to insinuate lots of things without much substance.

Just a question ..are you at all concerned that vaccines are not the end of all this? For instance would you accept a Vale game next year where you can't sit where you want and we are only allowed at home games? The supporters of this seem to think that if we keep doing this then things will be fine. It's becoming apparent that the vaccine isn't the end.

Ok so the nhs, medical practitioners and  lead scientists scientist from around the world all just wrong. 
It’s interesting you mention vaccines. I’ll assume you won’t be having one? One of the people you implored us to listen to, who really knew what was going on, said the pandemic was over in the summer and we don’t need a vaccine? He’s been roundly debunked obviously, but maybe listen to the scientific consensus instead of searching out opinions that back up what you want to believe. 

edit: “There is absolutely no need for vaccines to extinguish the pandemic” (Michael Yeadon) the guy who we should listen to, in his blog (obviously).

Edited by Andyregs
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Ok so the nhs, medical practitioners and  lead scientists scientist from around the world all just wrong. 
It’s interesting you mention vaccines. I’ll assume you won’t be having one? One of the people you implored us to listen to, who really knew what was going on, said the pandemic was over in the summer and we don’t need a vaccine? He’s been roundly debunked obviously, but maybe listen to the scientific consensus instead of searching out opinions that back up what you want to believe. 

edit: “There is absolutely no need for vaccines to extinguish the pandemic” (Michael Yeadon) the guy who we should listen to, in his blog (obviously).
Edit:some scientists believe...not all. Mike Yeadon has a theory based on his knowledge of how a virus works. He has exactly the same education, experience and credentials as Vallance. He rightly points out that viruses don't come in waves. This second wave is simply the effect of suppressing it in March last year. The Spanish flu wasn't the same virus, it was two different viruses in consecutive years. His belief of protecting the most vulnerable to allow for herd immunity is what should have happened all along.

I don't think vaccines are warranted over a virus that is harmless to the vast majority of people. As with flu, there is justification for those who are vulnerable or old, but for me, what's the point? I have literally no chance of dying.

You're also putting full trust in the results of a highly unreliable PCR test. It can pick up 'literally anything you want it to ' quote by the inventor. Yeadon argues that this is a casedemic and his argument is pretty persuasive.

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We will see in the future who was right. I believe that I will be on the right side of history and people will look back on this as the worst worldwide government policy ever enacted.

I envisage a time when people will say 'I always thought it was silly at the time '. People have invested so much time in being scared that they don't want to admit they are wrong. They don't want to go against the narrative. They don't want to be seen as selfish or uncaring.

Throughout history, people have been vilified for going against the grain. It's become nasty towards sceptics.

Isn't it obvious to you by the amount of people who are actively breaking or bending the rules that people have realised this is not the plague? Whilst you continue to hide behind the settee, most people want to get on with their lives, in the knowledge that even the most vulnerable have a 90+% chance of not dying.






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