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52 minutes ago, Wrex said:

I turned on Radio Stoke just after six just as they were saying "...and the EFL has been suspended and will be decided on points per game". Turned out that Askey had been sacked and they were replaying key moments from his reign.

 

Elite level football can carry on without much risk of the virus spreading.... providing players follow the rules!

You could say that about a lot of businesses couldn`t you? I can`t see how footballers are any more or less immune from catching and spreading this disease than anyone else.

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30 minutes ago, boslemportvale91 said:

Think the season being cancelled now would be a blessing ! 

I think the EFL decided on how many games had to be played for the season to count and also the method of points adjustment. Maybe someone can remember?

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14 hours ago, Wrex said:

I turned on Radio Stoke just after six just as they were saying "...and the EFL has been suspended and will be decided on points per game". Turned out that Askey had been sacked and they were replaying key moments from his reign.

 

Elite level football can carry on without much risk of the virus spreading.... providing players follow the rules!

We can't prevent the PL teams from receiving their TV money now can we?😩£££££

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13 hours ago, bycars rob said:

It was on a straight points gained per game wasn`t it? IMO the main gainers from this were Crewe who had played all the struggling sides and I couldn`t see them winning many of their last few games.

They seem to be doing alright now?

It's a funny old game.😲

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

From the words of Chris Whitty...'we may need some of the restrictions next winter '. There you have it. What's the point of the vaccine again if not to scrap all restrictions?

The point of the vaccine is to reduce the number of cases requiring hospital treatment in the future. We are dealing with a new virus as yet not fully understood especially the long term effects on survivors. The greater the number of all types of cases the greater the chances of mutations, which may require variations to the vaccines in the future.  Containment is for the future in order to reduce interruption to peoples living conditions. How long that will take is unknown.

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The point of the vaccine is to reduce the number of cases requiring hospital treatment in the future. We are dealing with a new virus as yet not fully understood especially the long term effects on survivors. The greater the number of all types of cases the greater the chances of mutations, which may require variations to the vaccines in the future.  Containment is for the future in order to reduce interruption to peoples living conditions. How long that will take is unknown.
Are you happy to shut the country down for x number of weeks every winter? I'm not saying that will be the case but I can't see people accepting another winter of restrictions after nearly a year already can you?

It's a jolly jape for people at the moment as many are sitting at home on virtually full pay watching Netflix. Is it achievable to keep doing this and the government paying for it? I imagine Boris gave him a bit of a bollocking for intimating that.

We have a vaccine for flu and accept a certain number of deaths from it every year. We need to be realistic at some point and say we have to live with the risk that some people will die, as many do from flu. Compliance and funding for a lockdown beyond the middle of this year is surely going to be very low?

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Was it with or of flu or underlying health issues that caused the deaths? and how old were they? Had they already lived past the average age before they had it? All massively important questions if they can be compared. Also i dony believe it was ever 50000 in recent years  
50,000 excess deaths, not just flu.

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

Are you happy to shut the country down for x number of weeks every winter? I'm not saying that will be the case but I can't see people accepting another winter of restrictions after nearly a year already can you?

It's a jolly jape for people at the moment as many are sitting at home on virtually full pay watching Netflix. Is it achievable to keep doing this and the government paying for it? I imagine Boris gave him a bit of a bollocking for intimating that.

We have a vaccine for flu and accept a certain number of deaths from it every year. We need to be realistic at some point and say we have to live with the risk that some people will die, as many do from flu. Compliance and funding for a lockdown beyond the middle of this year is surely going to be very low?

Is flu as contagious as COVID? No, over 1 million people currently have it. Imagine the mess in a few weeks time  if we weren’t back in lockdown now. It’s already tough enough for people with serious illnesses to be seen in hospitals well that will only get worse with this new strain. 
 

We don’t need to do that really because the vaccine is being rolled out. Surely now it’s a case of waiting until the elderly / vulnerable have had a vaccination? 
 

You mention a jolly jape. I’d disagree. Most are sick to death of being stuck at home. Furlough is 80% for some this isn’t enough, and a lot have been made redundant so I don’t agree with that point. Others that have kept jobs have much increased workloads as I do in my job. 
 

I don’t imagine the country will lockdown again over winter as surely this vaccination will have done the trick by then?(hopefully). I know for a fact neighbours near me completely ignored the rules over Christmas / new year so I’d say your right with people ignoring another winter lockdown should one come in 

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Hospital admissions are usually high. I'm not sure whether they are high but I am sceptical of you figures as you stated that we have had 50000 flu deaths before in a year whereas I have read that it is just over 20000.

There are many reasons why they may currently be space in hospitals but as I have mentioned previously people aren't exposing themselves to virus's as we are locked down. People aren't injuring themselves in the same numbers in sport, car crashes, work etc. People aren't injuring themselves in pubs/fights.

Hospitals are also having to cancel operations due to covid patient numbers and lack of staff through the illness and isolation.

Of course cases mean something. If cases are high it increases the likelihood of you ( or vulnerable people) coming into contact with someone who has the virus and contracting it themselves. The more people who have it the more people end up in hospital, have long covid, or die.

I tend to steer clear of Twitter too. However it does depend who the person is who tweets rather than the platform in general.
As mentioned, it was 50,000 excess deaths. However around 30,000 of this last year's excess deaths were at a persons home and unrelated to Covid.

You are right in the possibility that there are less accidents, people having fights etc and this could be a reason for less hospitalisations. Firstly it would be interesting to know how many admissions there are in a normal year for 'accidents ', I'd imagine it would be a relatively small number compared to heart attacks, strokes etc.

Secondly, the last figures I saw was that in many areas they are below normal capacity and in some areas significantly so. That suggests to me that with no restrictions we would be at normal capacity for the time of year.

Many nurses and doctors have been saying that it's not necessarily busier than other years but because of a much lower stock of beds and up to 30% of staff off for at least 10 days, it is putting significant pressure on certain hospitals. Lincoln hospital went into emergency protocol last night, which sounds alarming but when you read about the reasons it's due to lack of beds in comparison to other years and a chronic shortage of staff. Interestingly, they came out of these measures today, so it can't have been that bad. A reporter on sky news analysed the numbers and in summary said that it was a bad situation (as it is every winter) but not as bad as some would make you believe.

With regards cases, I'd take numbers with a pinch of salt. Many experts agree that there were way in excess of 100,000 people catching the virus every day but there was no testing capacity. France had nearly 200 more deaths than us yesterday but only had around 8,000 positive tests. The only gauges should be deaths and hospitalisations caused by Covid ( I.e. not caught in hospital after going in with something else). Up to 30% of infections are in hospitals and when you are testing everybody that goes into a hospital (including the maternity wards), you are bound to uncover lots of positive tests.

This is what I mean by intellectual laziness. It's people that have been told that this is a deadly virus and we are all at equal risk. It's simply not true. In the summer a survey was carried out and the most prevalent answer was that people thought that over 8 million people in the UK had died from Covid. It's nowhere near that figure but people can't be bothered to research and understand. If you look at all cause mortality and factor in the increased population and the increasing age of the population, 2020 was 50th out of the last 70 years in terms of mortality. 50th! If it was such a deadly virus, you'd expect (even with measures in place) the last year to be much higher in the list. It puts it into perspective for me.

They just swallow the headlines and don't actually dig any further. They don't want to believe that maybe, just maybe the reaction to this might be wrong as they've invested so much time in banging pots and pans and making masks. It's like a religion.

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Is flu as contagious as COVID? No, over 1 million people currently have it. Imagine the mess in a few weeks time  if we weren’t back in lockdown now. It’s already tough enough for people with serious illnesses to be seen in hospitals well that will only get worse with this new strain. 
 
We don’t need to do that really because the vaccine is being rolled out. Surely now it’s a case of waiting until the elderly / vulnerable have had a vaccination? 
 
You mention a jolly jape. I’d disagree. Most are sick to death of being stuck at home. Furlough is 80% for some this isn’t enough, and a lot have been made redundant so I don’t agree with that point. Others that have kept jobs have much increased workloads as I do in my job. 
 
I don’t imagine the country will lockdown again over winter as surely this vaccination will have done the trick by then?(hopefully). I know for a fact neighbours near me completely ignored the rules over Christmas / new year so I’d say your right with people ignoring another winter lockdown should one come in 
I agree with most of that, but with a vaccine contagion doesn't come into it. You're either protected or you aren't.

Whitty's comments were either careless or he really believes this to be the case. In which instance, someone should have pressed him on why he thinks that vaccines won't completely eradicate all restrictions from the point that enough people have had them.

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8 hours ago, leedsvaliant said:

As mentioned, it was 50,000 excess deaths. However around 30,000 of this last year's excess deaths were at a persons home and unrelated to Covid.

You are right in the possibility that there are less accidents, people having fights etc and this could be a reason for less hospitalisations. Firstly it would be interesting to know how many admissions there are in a normal year for 'accidents ', I'd imagine it would be a relatively small number compared to heart attacks, strokes etc.

Secondly, the last figures I saw was that in many areas they are below normal capacity and in some areas significantly so. That suggests to me that with no restrictions we would be at normal capacity for the time of year.

Many nurses and doctors have been saying that it's not necessarily busier than other years but because of a much lower stock of beds and up to 30% of staff off for at least 10 days, it is putting significant pressure on certain hospitals. Lincoln hospital went into emergency protocol last night, which sounds alarming but when you read about the reasons it's due to lack of beds in comparison to other years and a chronic shortage of staff. Interestingly, they came out of these measures today, so it can't have been that bad. A reporter on sky news analysed the numbers and in summary said that it was a bad situation (as it is every winter) but not as bad as some would make you believe.

With regards cases, I'd take numbers with a pinch of salt. Many experts agree that there were way in excess of 100,000 people catching the virus every day but there was no testing capacity. France had nearly 200 more deaths than us yesterday but only had around 8,000 positive tests. The only gauges should be deaths and hospitalisations caused by Covid ( I.e. not caught in hospital after going in with something else). Up to 30% of infections are in hospitals and when you are testing everybody that goes into a hospital (including the maternity wards), you are bound to uncover lots of positive tests.

This is what I mean by intellectual laziness. It's people that have been told that this is a deadly virus and we are all at equal risk. It's simply not true. In the summer a survey was carried out and the most prevalent answer was that people thought that over 8 million people in the UK had died from Covid. It's nowhere near that figure but people can't be bothered to research and understand. If you look at all cause mortality and factor in the increased population and the increasing age of the population, 2020 was 50th out of the last 70 years in terms of mortality. 50th! If it was such a deadly virus, you'd expect (even with measures in place) the last year to be much higher in the list. It puts it into perspective for me.

They just swallow the headlines and don't actually dig any further. They don't want to believe that maybe, just maybe the reaction to this might be wrong as they've invested so much time in banging pots and pans and making masks. It's like a religion.

Now its excess deaths. Before you said caused by flu. Intellectual dishonesty right there. 

Where are these figures that show hospitals significantly under normal capacity that you have seen? I guess Twitter or Facebook, the same places you conduct your "research" 

 

There is over 1.1m people with the virus right now. If we had no restrictions what do you think would happen? 

 

It really is true that empty vessels make the most noise. 

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Now its excess deaths. Before you said caused by flu. Intellectual dishonesty right there. 
Where are these figures that show hospitals significantly under normal capacity that you have seen? I guess Twitter or Facebook, the same places you conduct your "research" 
 
There is over 1.1m people with the virus right now. If we had no restrictions what do you think would happen? 
 
It really is true that empty vessels make the most noise. 
I apologise oh great one, we all make mistakes, but the point is still valid that we get significant excess deaths every so often. A lot of the excess deaths from this last year have been made up from other things than Covid.

I don't get data from Facebook. It's all there on the NHS/PHE website if you can be bothered to look.

A million people have got 'it'. Are they ill? Have they been tested because they are ill? How do we know how many had it the first time around? Are they in hospital because of 'it'? Cases are meaningless without context. You're also placing faith in an unreliable PCR test, not suitable for mass testing ( which is what the inventor of it said)..good enough source for you?

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41 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I apologise oh great one, we all make mistakes, but the point is still valid that we get significant excess deaths every so often. A lot of the excess deaths from this last year have been made up from other things than Covid.

I don't get data from Facebook. It's all there on the NHS/PHE website if you can be bothered to look.

A million people have got 'it'. Are they ill? Have they been tested because they are ill? How do we know how many had it the first time around? Are they in hospital because of 'it'? Cases are meaningless without context. You're also placing faith in an unreliable PCR test, not suitable for mass testing ( which is what the inventor of it said)..good enough source for you?

The inventor of the PCR test is dead and there is no record of him stating that it is unreliable and not meant for mass testing.

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