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30 minutes ago, Joe B said:

I wrote a massive post trying to explain how this is all a bit more complex than being made out but have now edited it, as nothing will be gained. 

Long story short - Teachers won't be striking. My school is closed, by government order, to students tomorrow but the entire workforce will be in for the key worker students and to engage in a full timetable of remote learning. 

The Unions are just trying to gain concessions. It doesn't reflect any groundswell of opinion, and the Unions know there's no striking.

We're not all baddies, folks, as easy and fun as it is to portray.

 

Some just like to point the finger at teachers. My wife and everyone at her school have worked throughout lockdown. (Actually had much increased workloads). Going to work as normal for vulnerable and key workers kids and then also doing all of the home learning for those who can’t attend school. 

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Yes, it's a clever argument you make as it's completely impossible to prove exactly where the teachers contracted the virus from. 
If we look at it logically, those teachers were spending all day surrounded by 30 'bubbles'; whilst not certain, there is a decent probability they contracted it at work, as there's been nowhere else to go with everything shut down, especially those who work at schools with confirmed cases.
Wow, there's a lot of assumptions there. Some people have barely left their house and have still caught it. If schools were such a vector for disease then surely most teachers would have caught it?

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Schools stay open for vulnerable. During the height of the lockdown my wife’s school was open to vulnerable kids or for those where they’re parents were key workers. Your point is the fault of the parents not the schools. 
I agree, it is the fault of the parents. You can therefore surely see that it's of huge benefit for kids to be in school where they are safe, fed and they are actually taught? I know from experience that child welfare is a constant issue, yet we are throwing these kids to the lions because of a very, very minimal risk.

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Some just like to point the finger at teachers. My wife and everyone at her school have worked throughout lockdown. (Actually had much increased workloads). Going to work as normal for vulnerable and key workers kids and then also doing all of the home learning for those who can’t attend school. 
Most teachers I know are happy to crack on with things. Even if some of their colleagues have caught Covid they are very rarely seriously ill and most teachers have not caught it all. Again, it's people vastly taking risk out of context.

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2 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
21 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:
Schools stay open for vulnerable. During the height of the lockdown my wife’s school was open to vulnerable kids or for those where they’re parents were key workers. Your point is the fault of the parents not the schools. 

I agree, it is the fault of the parents. You can therefore surely see that it's of huge benefit for kids to be in school where they are safe, fed and they are actually taught? I know from experience that child welfare is a constant issue, yet we are throwing these kids to the lions because of a very, very minimal risk.

It may be a benefit for the kids. However it is not a benefit for staff. again it’s minimal risk to them but to staff members. The kids that are vulnerable still have access to the schools and teachers are doing e learning for others. It’s not ideal and it’s a huge strain on teachers however it isn’t fair to put teachers under an unnecessary risk 

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2 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:
20 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:
Some just like to point the finger at teachers. My wife and everyone at her school have worked throughout lockdown. (Actually had much increased workloads). Going to work as normal for vulnerable and key workers kids and then also doing all of the home learning for those who can’t attend school. 

Most teachers I know are happy to crack on with things. Even if some of their colleagues have caught Covid they are very rarely seriously ill and most teachers have not caught it all. Again, it's people vastly taking risk out of context.

It’s not though is it. Just because you’ve spoken to teachers with that experience Dosent mean it’s the same for all. My wife and the other teachers I know want to go back (are going back tomorrow) however aren’t happy with how schools are being treated. Teachers have died from it and as I put earlier it’s also the strain it then puts on family members. Them being around 30 different people will obviously spread the virus. They could easily then spread it to other members of their family. 
 

I really don’t get this idea that everything is out of proportion - it’s mad. 

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It may be a benefit for the kids. However it is not a benefit for staff. again it’s minimal risk to them but to staff members. The kids that are vulnerable still have access to the schools and teachers are doing e learning for others. It’s not ideal and it’s a huge strain on teachers however it isn’t fair to put teachers under an unnecessary risk 
What risk? Show me where thousands of teachers have died by being in school.

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It’s not though is it. Just because you’ve spoken to teachers with that experience Dosent mean it’s the same for all. My wife and the other teachers I know want to go back (are going back tomorrow) however aren’t happy with how schools are being treated. Teachers have died from it and as I put earlier it’s also the strain it then puts on family members. Them being around 30 different people will obviously spread the virus. They could easily then spread it to other members of their family. 
 
I really don’t get this idea that everything is out of proportion - it’s mad. 
But then that's been the same as previous years. Teachers can bring anything back home with them including colds (which also kill). Additionally we are not permitted to mix with other households, so at the very worst there is potential exposure to the people in that person's household. But again you have to be reminded of the CMO's own words back in April...most people (the vast majority) who get this will suffer mild to moderate symptoms and most people will not get it.

I tell you what I think is mad. People treating this like it's the plague or Ebola and willingly accepting the wearing of masks (very little evidence they do anything but we won't go there), closure of anything that makes life worth living and virtual imprisonment in our homes. The risk to the vast, vast majority is so small. 370 odd people under the age of 60 with no serious underlying health problems (or none that they knew of) have died from this pandemic. 1600 people in the UK die every day. We've lost context!

80,000 people died in the late 60s from HK flu but because we didn't have social media and a rabid media, it passed without really being mentioned at all. The reaction to this has been crazy.

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:

But then that's been the same as previous years. Teachers can bring anything back home with them including colds (which also kill). Additionally we are not permitted to mix with other households, so at the very worst there is potential exposure to the people in that person's household. But again you have to be reminded of the CMO's own words back in April...most people (the vast majority) who get this will suffer mild to moderate symptoms and most people will not get it.

I tell you what I think is mad. People treating this like it's the plague or Ebola and willingly accepting the wearing of masks (very little evidence they do anything but we won't go there), closure of anything that makes life worth living and virtual imprisonment in our homes. The risk to the vast, vast majority is so small. 370 odd people under the age of 60 with no serious underlying health problems (or none that they knew of) have died from this pandemic. 1600 people in the UK die every day. We've lost context!

80,000 people died in the late 60s from HK flu but because we didn't have social media and a rabid media, it passed without really being mentioned at all. The reaction to this has been crazy.

What a load of tosh!  This can be a killer virus, and the ICUs up and down the country are filled with very sick people, we need and will be going into total lockdown very soon.

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1 hour ago, leedsvaliant said:


I tell you what I think is mad. People treating this like it's the plague or Ebola and willingly accepting the wearing of masks (very little evidence they do anything but we won't go there),

What’s even mad is the spread of disinformation because people feel put out doing the bare minimum to help stop people dying.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-facemasks.pdf?la=en-GB&hash=A22A87CB28F7D6AD9BD93BBCBFC2BB24

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What a load of tosh!  This can be a killer virus, and the ICUs up and down the country are filled with very sick people, we need and will be going into total lockdown very soon.
And you know this do you? Because you've seen it on the BBC? I've got news for you...people are always very sick in hospitals every single year at this time, hospitals are always under pressure every single year at this time. People die in significant amounts every single year at this time. 2 or 3 years ago around 50,000 people died because of a bad flu outbreak (barely reported).

I'm not denying it's a particular nasty virus (particularly to those over the age of 80), but even then it's not a death sentence and well over 90% of people will survive.

Lockdowns are the definition of insanity. Let's use the same tactic which will probably costs 3 or 4 times as many lives as it saves. Not to mention the mental health impact, the missed cancer diagnosis, the thousands of old people with dementia left to die alone and scared, the people too scared to go to hospital and dying as a result, the madness at funerals, the impact on children's education, the impact on people's lives and livelihoods, the impact on the arts, the impact on pubs and restaurants, the impact on the football club that we love. But if it just saves one life....

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I think there's arguments for and against masks. If properly worn and of the necessary medical specifications then they may be of benefit but most people wear ill fitting or home made coverings which have negligible benefits. I wear a mask but I don't truly believe it would prevent me from spreading the virus to someone else.

Masks are of insignificance in the overall argument for me.

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12 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

I think there's arguments for and against masks. If properly worn and of the necessary medical specifications then they may be of benefit but most people wear ill fitting or home made coverings which have negligible benefits. I wear a mask but I don't truly believe it would prevent me from spreading the virus to someone else.

Masks are of insignificance in the overall argument for me.

So is it madness and very little evidence, or is it ‘people should wear them properly.’ 
And read the link, it doesn’t need to be a medical specification.

Crucially, the report also finds that wearing a cotton mask protects the mask wearer as well - combining all research on cloth masks in a new meta-analysis.”

They aren’t insignificant. You’re just making things up to fit what you want to believe.

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So is it madness and very little evidence, or is it ‘people should wear them properly.’ 
And read the link, it doesn’t need to be a medical specification.
”Crucially, the report also finds that wearing a cotton mask protects the mask wearer as well - combining all research on cloth masks in a new meta-analysis.”
They aren’t insignificant. You’re just making things up to fit what you want to believe.
As I said, masks play a very small role in proceedings in my view, so I don't want to get bogged down in that debate. Needless to say that the WHO and the deputy CMO said that masks were of no use up until about June and there are several academic papers which go against the ones that you link to.

As I say, it's not a big part of the argument for me, so there's no point debating it.

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12 minutes ago, leedsvaliant said:

As I said, masks play a very small role in proceedings in my view, so I don't want to get bogged down in that debate. Needless to say that the WHO and the deputy CMO said that masks were of no use up until about June and there are several academic papers which go against the ones that you link to.

As I say, it's not a big part of the argument for me, so there's no point debating it.

Science isn’t dogma. It changes when new evidence is presented. You don’t want to get ‘bogged down’ with it because the evidence goes against what you want it to, and your disinformation has been fact checked. Coincidently, Asian countries where mask wearing is common, have had only moderate outbreaks. 

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Science isn’t dogma. It changes when new evidence is presented. You don’t want to get ‘bogged down’ with it because the evidence goes against what you want it to, and your disinformation has been fact checked. Coincidently, Asian countries where mask wearing is common, have had only moderate outbreaks. 
I've already said that I wear a mask and that in some instances they may prevent viral spread. Let's just leave it at that and actually debate the important issues.

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