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Hi all, An announcement from OVF Towers... this evening I will be putting a few things in place to hopefully help some users out during the pandemic,  particularly during the self-isolation perio

I am a law abiding citizen. I have never even had a parking ticket and I am in my 60th year. I accept that the Government has had a very difficult job but they have made a complete horlicks of it. The

If football matches here had to be played behind closed doors,  Sjoke would still count 23000 attendance. 

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2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

I would think that Flu deaths over the last 8 weeks would be lower since people prone to it would have been victims of Corona instead. Which has also brought the excess deaths below the norm.

so does that mean that those who died of Covid in April and May would have died of flu related illness anyway by now?

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15 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

so does that mean that those who died of Covid in April and May would have died of flu related illness anyway by now?

It is possible some may have done.  We all die at some point ,  nobody likes to die early.  Preventative measures are always being sought,  and new  causes of death appear from time to time. Only total annual deaths give an indication of how we are coping with nature and a changing world. Covid 19 may well be looked back on as a minor event compared to global warming, I will not be around to comment.

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19 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

It is possible some may have done.  We all die at some point ,  nobody likes to die early.  Preventative measures are always being sought,  and new  causes of death appear from time to time. Only total annual deaths give an indication of how we are coping with nature and a changing world. Covid 19 may well be looked back on as a minor event compared to global warming, I will not be around to comment.

its interesting isn't it.  We have taken extreme measure to combat covid, which in the grand scheme of threat to life isn't actually that lethal.  However, the action taken has no doubt led to other air born illnesses not being spread also, like flu.  So maybe the measures with masks and being socially aware of personal space, not going out or mixing if we feel unwell, cold, cough etc should continue forever.

We don't yet know how basically shutting the NHS to all but covid for a while is going to impact cancer deaths over the next 2, 5, 10 years and I doubt we will ever quantify that.

One thing this has shown us is that we have a very nasty and incompetent government.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

so does that mean that those who died of Covid in April and May would have died of flu related illness anyway by now?

There have been 65000 extra deaths this year and would have been more without the lockdown.( also presumably less have died of flu this year than normal) Of those 65,000 approx 60,000 have covid mentioned on the death certificate. The government figures only give those that have tested positive for covid and have died within 28days of the test.

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34 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

 So maybe the measures with masks and being socially aware of personal space, not going out or mixing if we feel unwell, cold, cough etc should continue forever.

It’s thought that one of the reasons Asian countries like South Korea and Japan didn’t suffer as much is because it culturally accepted to wear a face mask already.

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47 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

  So maybe the measures with masks and being socially aware of personal space, not going out or mixing if we feel unwell, cold, cough etc should continue forever.

 

Probably for the foreseeable future. Having been mask wearing for the last few days off and on, mainly on, you soon get used to it,. It is not a problem. Social distancing I can live with anyway. I don't like strangers closer than necessary to me ever. 

 

13 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

It’s thought that one of the reasons Asian countries like South Korea and Japan didn’t suffer as much is because it culturally accepted to wear a face mask already.

When I was in Japan, about ten years ago, a few did. But not the majority, It was certainly not regarded as odd. But I think this was an anti pollution thing. Not virus. Makes no difference, yeah it was not unusual.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

One thing this has shown us is that we have a very nasty and incompetent government.

Its shown several things.

We have a large number of people who don't give a rat's ass about others.

We have a media base that thrives on doom and gloom with headlines like.... I've had to postpone my wedding and I haven't been able to walk my dog etc.... if you compare those to the number of people who died it's hardly earth shattering.

We have people wanting the government to bail out or take action to save their business.... in a free market economy if you dont have customers you fall.

Its shown a large number of people to be.... hmmmm what's the word?...... idiots. Who want someone to take action to safeguard them... as long as it doesn't interfere with what they want to do, where they want to do it and when.

Its shown the people who make the rules don't follow them, people who enforce the rules are exempt and abuse them and a large majority of the people the rules were made for don't understand them, ignore them or dispute the need for them.

I'm all in favour of making people accountable, but it should be applied across the board.

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3 hours ago, bycars rob said:

There have been 65000 extra deaths this year and would have been more without the lockdown.( also presumably less have died of flu this year than normal) Of those 65,000 approx 60,000 have covid mentioned on the death certificate. The government figures only give those that have tested positive for covid and have died within 28days of the test.

The Government have counted any deaths to be presumed to be Covid, they do not have to be tested for Covid. Also, where did you get the 65,000 extra deaths? If it’s ONS when do the stats go up to?

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on ONS they go up to the end of July.  By which point there are around 60000 excess deaths on last year.  However, around 5000 of then occurred in Jaunuary and February, pre covid and another 5000 occurred in March with just under 3500 covid related.  April sees 32500 covid related deaths yet there were 42000 deaths extra compared to 2019.  In fact from about October 2019, our death rate was running higher than the previous years figures...

None of these figures include Scotland.

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16 hours ago, philpvfc said:

The Government have counted any deaths to be presumed to be Covid, they do not have to be tested for Covid. Also, where did you get the 65,000 extra deaths? If it’s ONS when do the stats go up to?

Govt only counted hospital deaths, there were not enough tests to go around in any case. Extra deaths are deaths above the average for previous months/years. haggling over numbers is just a smoke screen for incompetence and lack of preparation. I fear the worst for next winter.

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2 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

on ONS they go up to the end of July.  By which point there are around 60000 excess deaths on last year.  However, around 5000 of then occurred in Jaunuary and February, pre covid and another 5000 occurred in March with just under 3500 covid related.  April sees 32500 covid related deaths yet there were 42000 deaths extra compared to 2019.  In fact from about October 2019, our death rate was running higher than the previous years figures...

None of these figures include Scotland.

Can anyone be sure when Covid deaths began in the UK?  The total number of deaths  is the concern, why ? Due to a new disease or living  standards falling for certain groups of people? 

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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Govt only counted hospital deaths, there were not enough tests to go around in any case. Extra deaths are deaths above the average for previous months/years. haggling over numbers is just a smoke screen for incompetence and lack of preparation. I fear the worst for next winter.

Not true. The Government include deaths at care homes if it is suspected to be Covid related even when not tested. This wasn’t the case originally but they started including them around May hence why there was something like 5000 deaths added in one day as they back dated any suspected deaths.

Edited by philpvfc

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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Can anyone be sure when Covid deaths began in the UK?  The total number of deaths  is the concern, why ? Due to a new disease or living  standards falling for certain groups of people? 

Well that's what I was hinting at.  Excess deaths seemed to start occurring quite a few months before Covid officially happened 

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4 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

on ONS they go up to the end of July.  By which point there are around 60000 excess deaths on last year.  However, around 5000 of then occurred in Jaunuary and February, pre covid and another 5000 occurred in March with just under 3500 covid related.  April sees 32500 covid related deaths yet there were 42000 deaths extra compared to 2019.  In fact from about October 2019, our death rate was running higher than the previous years figures...

None of these figures include Scotland.

According to ONS on 7th August there has been an increase of 51000 deaths in England and Wales so if you are correct that the end of July it stood at 60000 we could be down to zero excess deaths by the end of the year. Also, you do have to consider that of the last 8/10 years death rates have increased in the U.K.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending7august2020

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281478/death-rate-united-kingdom-uk/

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36 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Well that's what I was hinting at.  Excess deaths seemed to start occurring quite a few months before Covid officially happened 

Excess deaths seems to refer to more than the average of a particular time period.. which is misleading at best.

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On 20/08/2020 at 20:30, Nofinikea said:

So why the <ovf censored> has the whole world crippled the economy?  Genuine question.

If someone has flu you can see they look ill, symptoms are obvious and you would stay away. If someone has Covid they are more than likely asymptomatic and you wouldn't know that they had it so will spread it without knowing.  Didn't think that was a difficult concept to grasp. 

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2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Can anyone be sure when Covid deaths began in the UK?  The total number of deaths  is the concern, why ? Due to a new disease or living  standards falling for certain groups of people? 

I am almost sure I had Covid which started showing symptoms on Boxing Day. I had been in Milan 14 days earlier. I was seriously ill and looking back at the symptoms I am sure that was it. 

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