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54 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Leicester has 54 councillors,51 of them are Labour,they also have 3 MP's all Labour.I suppose the lockdown in Leicester is all down to the Tories as well is it?

You forgot Leicester voted  Remain, and there are no Tory councillors.  Lockdown is  due to lack of cohesion between a centrally dominated testing system and local knowledge. 

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6 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

It’s the strangers fault for letting him shake hands

Of course, he was testing them whether they were "On message" or not, not that he had forgot the "Message"

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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

It was a government instruction.  And if you recall we were not originally told about deaths in care homes. It was kept secret for weeks.

Stevens was commenting in his role as head of the NHS, so, to a large extent, as IC said, he isn't going to want to contradict the government or accept blame.

The government reserved space in care homes, 1800 beds initially (and paid for it in many cases), instructing hospitals to send elderly patients into care homes because they were worried about hospitals not having the capacity to cope with Covid patients. That was also why some operations were cancelled and those Nightingale hospitals (not really needed) were built. They feared the NHS would be swamped. There was a letter in the Times from a care home owner saying that Stevens had told everyone that 90,000 beds needed to be cleared as a matter of urgency.

So, as the Audit office report said, 25,000+ patients were discharged into care homes without them all being tested. We don't know how many were tested. The government doesn't know. All it wanted to do was to make space and clear wards. I don't expect hospitals wilfully sent seriously ill patients into care homes but common sense and logic tells you that since hospitals seeded a great many infections a lot of those elderly people must have had Covid. Of course, some staff and visitors could have done the same but that reverts back to the points about a lack of PPE and the fact that people in care homes were not tested until after mid April. They are still not all routinely tested now. Next month, August, we are told. Horse. Door. Bolted.

There are only two brief references to care homes in the SAGE minutes and no-one on SAGE is a social care expert. Thus, up to March 13th care homes were told by PHE not to worry unduly as it was "very unlikely that residents will become infected." The problem with many care homes of course is that they lacked PPE, don't always have the facilities to isolate everyone and it's hard to keep residents separate if they have dementia and don't understand what's going on. The key is surely testing but by Easter Monday only 505 care home workers had been tested. 

I know it's a real problem. And clearly mistakes were made by different people at different times. Fair comment. But the guidance they had was behind the curve, they never had enough PPE, and were never all tested. In an understandable concern to protect hospitals care homes were neglected and left to their own devices. Prof Martin Green of Care England thinks that the government never had a plan and made it up as they went along. 

The only person who ever had a protective ring thrown around them was Cummings. 

 

With respect, most of your facts are with the benefit of hindsight.

I find it incredible that the NHS would send patients back into care homes without testing them, back into an environment  where they are already vulnerable, they should at least have given the heads up to the homes so that they could be prepared.

It's rather like having your car serviced but you not told that the wheel nuts have not being tightened and the garage wait for you to find out, so either you get killed in an accident or you have to go back to an already busy garage to have them tightened for you.

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With respect, facts have nothing to do with hindsight. They don't change.

1 hour ago, Mario said:

I find it incredible that the NHS would send patients back into care homes without testing them, back into an environment  where they are already vulnerable, they should at least have given the heads up to the homes so that they could be prepared.

That's precisely why it's so scandalous. People were sent into care homes without all being tested. That's the whole point.

 

Stay alert.

 

 

 

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Should we not have made masks compulsory when we leave our homes? What do you think? 

Does everyone wear a mask in your neck of the woods, Geo? Is is something that Asians do as a matter of course or a government rule?

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Should we not have made masks compulsory when we leave our homes? What do you think? 

Does everyone wear a mask in your neck of the woods, Geo? Is is something that Asians do as a matter of course or a government rule?

They were doing it long before covid mate... usually because of air pollution. 

I think  masks should have been introduced a lot earlier, I don't think it would stop people catching it directly but would slow down the spread. If it is or becomes airborn  it could change things drastically.

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Boris today trying to say that when he said "Care homes were not following the procedures" he didn't mean that care homes were not following the procedures! He also refused to apologise for his awful comment.

He is now saying that what he meant was that "no one knew about the potential for asymptomatic transmission" - see timeline below taken from Stefan Simonowitz twitter account that proves that's rubbish.

He is now just making stuff up to cover up his failures, and people are eating it up because they don't like the truth, we have really messed this up and people have died.

The sooner Rishi takes over from Boris Trump the better. 

A timeline:

On 28th January the Government published a paper on asymptomatic spread and on the same day SAGE said "Asymptomatic transmission cannot be ruled out"

Reports on the potential of Asymptomatic transmission were released by Scientific America (31st Jan), New York Times (26th Feb), CDC (12th MArch) and NATURE (20th March)

Professor Jeremy Farrar, a member of sage has said that "It was clear that Asymptomatic transmission was a strong possibility in mid Jan and confirmed in February

On the 9th April Patrick Vallance said at a daily briefing "30% - 50% of those infected by coronavirus could be asymptomatic carriers"

This is the period that people were being transferred to care homes without testing.

On the 22 April Matt Hancock said in the commons that "The scientific evidence DOES show that aysmptomatic transmission occurs and that is one of the very significant challenges this virus presents"

 

 

Edited by Iron Curtain

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On 07/07/2020 at 17:58, tommytunstall said:

Not seen much of Billy Liar as well. Wonder why, today another 155 deaths. Kicking the true Covid deaths to around 60k. But of course it's all the fault of the Care homes.  Still no Track and Trace, what a shambles this Tory Government really is.

Dunner worry,he's come back to put Captain Hindsight in his place.😀

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7 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

 

The sooner Rishi takes over from Boris Trump the better. 

 

 

 

 

Could not agree more.

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5 hours ago, Doha said:

 

Absolutely shocking ... Brexiters wanted rid of unelected bureaucrats  and now we have one controlling a useless puppet of a Prime Minister whilst running rough-shot over whatever he fancies.

 

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9 hours ago, Doha said:

 

As an aside, the Mark ne-Francois Pas parody Twitter account is genuinely one of the best things on the whole internet, capturing through biting satire perfectly the combination of his small-man syndrome, and the daily epic stupidity of the current situation, and roping in a motley crew of characters to boot, with pictures. It's laugh out loud funny.

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Great to See Rishi Sunak talking about his £1,000 retention bonus plan... He was honest, admitted it wasn't perfect and "there will be deadweight"

So refreshing for him at acknowledge its not perfect and trusting the public to realise this. That's all people want.  

Compare that to Blustering Boris Trump who seems to think if he just tells people he is perfect in every way they will be stupid enough to believe him. Its an insult to people intelligence to think they will buy his lies, unfortunately there are a lot of people proving him right by lapping them up.

The sooner Rishi replaces the disaster zone that is Boris the better.

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39 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Great to See Rishi Sunak talking about his £1,000 retention bonus plan... He was honest, admitted it wasn't perfect and "there will be deadweight"

So refreshing for him at acknowledge its not perfect and trusting the public to realise this. That's all people want.  

Compare that to Blustering Boris Trump who seems to think if he just tells people he is perfect in every way they will be stupid enough to believe him. Its an insult to people intelligence to think they will buy his lies, unfortunately there are a lot of people proving him right by lapping them up.

The sooner Rishi replaces the disaster zone that is Boris the better.

Yet,he’s actually getting blasted by Dudds this morning.You couldn’t make it up.Sunak v Dudds is like Barcelona v Burscough.The shining light in the Tory Party.

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10 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

Absolutely shocking ... Brexiters wanted rid of unelected bureaucrats  and now we have one controlling a useless puppet of a Prime Minister whilst running rough-shot over whatever he fancies.

 

Cummings being a puppet master is pure conspiracy. We vote for MPs and the leader of the winning party forms a Government which includes appointing people to assist them.

 

It's not comparable in any way to people who have an issue with unelected people who live in another country and are realistically unaccountable to the British people.

 

Also, you'll have a tough time convincing brexiteers to stick up for a civil service that has treated us with contempt and betreyed our democratic right for 5 years.

 

Cummings has work to do yet.

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1 hour ago, Howjy04 said:

Yet,he’s actually getting blasted by Dudds this morning.You couldn’t make it up.Sunak v Dudds is like Barcelona v Burscough.The shining light in the Tory Party.

The shining light v the damp squib?

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

Cummings being a puppet master is pure conspiracy. We vote for MPs and the leader of the winning party forms a Government which includes appointing people to assist them.

 

It's not comparable in any way to people who have an issue with unelected people who live in another country and are realistically unaccountable to the British people.

 

Also, you'll have a tough time convincing brexiteers to stick up for a civil service that has treated us with contempt and betreyed our democratic right for 5 years.

 

Cummings has work to do yet.

They do famously say fighting fire with fire is the best way to put out a fire.

I think Cummings is already on the list of people you demand extra special levels of evidence against before you will hear a bad world said about them... but I will double check 😂

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On 09/07/2020 at 11:15, Iron Curtain said:

They do famously say fighting fire with fire is the best way to put out a fire.

I think Cummings is already on the list of people you demand extra special levels of evidence against before you will hear a bad world said about them... but I will double check 😂

Any evidence AT ALL will do. Anything but conspiracy thoeries.

 

Boris Johnson is the PM, he hired Dominic Cummings. As all other present day PMs have had advisors. Tony Blair absolutely loved them.

 

I think you are deliberately misrepresenting the arguements of brexit voters to try and claim that Cummings position is contradictory to our views. It isn't.

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