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20 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Hislop on Cummings on Have  I Got News For You  last  night  well worth a watch I am told. One for catch up.

Did he mention the fact that one of the witnesses who claimed that Cummings had made a second journey north did it for a joke?

Thought not?

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21 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

I wouldn’t have Johnson’s job for a gold clock and neither would any buggar else if they are being truthful.

**** Cummings. 

I agree with both those statements. I do. But you could plausibly argue that because of the mistakes we've made in past months it's made it all so much harder to crack.

It's a balancing act but we are now clearly pressing ahead with lifting some measures when other countries waited longer, until it was safer. 

Their deaths were far lower than ours. Cases too far far lower. It varies a bit on a daily basis but we perhaps should have considered waiting for another fortnight, until we'd got a better grip of TTI and a workable app, plus the daily stats moving down much more rapidly. I don't think a single country has lifted measures with our relatively high stats. Not one.

It's a big risk. That's all I'm saying. The government of course has economic and social matters to weigh up too. I get that. But I would prefer it if they were more cautious when dealing with this deadly virus. 

It's interesting to note that we locked down with fewer cases/deaths than we have now when we are lifting the lock down.

Also instructive is what's being going on in Germany where the R0 figure was 0.6 the other day but now 1.01. It seems to waver and vary a lot, with cases breaking out here and there and others fizzling out. So we need to keep a careful eye on it. Their numbers are way lower than ours in all respects and their testing/tracing ahead of us too. But they're still having problems.

The Bundesliga is back though and that's given us a bit of enjoyment in the last fortnight! I've adopted Hertha Berlin and they are well worth watching, although the relentless machine that is Bayern Munich seems to run over everything in its path. 

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12 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Did he mention the fact that one of the witnesses who claimed that Cummings had made a second journey north did it for a joke?

Thought not?

 

The media have been an utter disgrace.

 

It has been alleged in this thread that Cummings will be responsible for deaths of people who will now no longer believe that the lockdown applies to them. I wonder if the same people will now place any blame on this "witness" or the media outlets who reported this lie without any reasonable level of fact checking, for killing people too?

 

The seriousness of the case was multiplied when these false allegations were made. The media whipped the nation up into an absolute frenzy, difficult to come back down from when the case started collapsing.

 

As an aside:

 

 

The same Mirror article has this quote from Keir:

 

Quote

Labour leader Keir Starmer said Mr ­Johnson’s claims that Mr Cummings had “no ­alternative” but to travel so far for childcare was “not a reasonable interpretation of the rules and the Prime Minister knows it”.

He added: “If I were Prime Minister I would have sacked Cummings, and there must now be an investigation into what has happened. It is an insult to sacrifices made by the British people that Boris Johnson has chosen to take no action against Cummings.

“The public will be forgiven for thinking there is one rule for the PM’s closest adviser and another for the British people. This was a test of the Prime Minister and he has failed it.”

I wonder if Sir Keir is considering taking responsibility for Duffield's breaches of lockdown considering his comments here:

 

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13 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I agree with both those statements. I do. But you could plausibly argue that because of the mistakes we've made in past months it's made it all so much harder to crack.

It's a balancing act but we are now clearly pressing ahead with lifting some measures when other countries waited longer, until it was safer. 

Their deaths were far lower than ours. Cases too far far lower. It varies a bit on a daily basis but we perhaps should have considered waiting for another fortnight, until we'd got a better grip of TTI and a workable app, plus the daily stats moving down much more rapidly. I don't think a single country has lifted measures with our relatively high stats. Not one.

It's a big risk. That's all I'm saying. The government of course has economic and social matters to weigh up too. I get that. But I would prefer it if they were more cautious when dealing with this deadly virus. 

It's interesting to note that we locked down with fewer cases/deaths than we have now when we are lifting the lock down.

Also instructive is what's being going on in Germany where the R0 figure was 0.6 the other day but now 1.01. It seems to waver and vary a lot, with cases breaking out here and there and others fizzling out. So we need to keep a careful eye on it. Their numbers are way lower than ours in all respects and their testing/tracing ahead of us too. But they're still having problems.

The Bundesliga is back though and that's given us a bit of enjoyment in the last fortnight! I've adopted Hertha Berlin and they are well worth watching, although the relentless machine that is Bayern Munich seems to run over everything in its path. 

Too much like friendly games,Sage.Ive watched a few old games and am looking forward to Rob’s Monday Special.

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34 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

The media have been an utter disgrace.

 

It has been alleged in this thread that Cummings will be responsible for deaths of people who will now no longer believe that the lockdown applies to them. I wonder if the same people will now place any blame on this "witness" or the media outlets who reported this lie without any reasonable level of fact checking, for killing people too?

 

The seriousness of the case was multiplied when these false allegations were made. The media whipped the nation up into an absolute frenzy, difficult to come back down from when the case started collapsing.

 

As an aside:

 

 

The same Mirror article has this quote from Keir:

 

I wonder if Sir Keir is considering taking responsibility for Duffield's breaches of lockdown considering his comments here:

 

She has at least apologised and admitted it and resigned from her position for a much less serious breach as did Ferguson.Dominic could learn a lot from that and as he and his supposed boss are in a position of government it would have helped the country to adhere to the laws if they showed at least some contrition. 

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41 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

The media have been an utter disgrace.

 

It has been alleged in this thread that Cummings will be responsible for deaths of people who will now no longer believe that the lockdown applies to them. I wonder if the same people will now place any blame on this "witness" or the media outlets who reported this lie without any reasonable level of fact checking, for killing people too?

 

The seriousness of the case was multiplied when these false allegations were made. The media whipped the nation up into an absolute frenzy, difficult to come back down from when the case started collapsing.

 

As an aside:

 

 

The same Mirror article has this quote from Keir:

 

I wonder if Sir Keir is considering taking responsibility for Duffield's breaches of lockdown considering his comments here:

 

Let's forget Cummings!

Whatabout the media?

Whatabout the witness?

Whatabout Duffield?

Whatabout Starmer?

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Here’s a beauty for you.My mum 89, is in the highest risk group.She has 3 social care visits per day.She has two people to help her each visit.The regular two are excellent.Thoughtful, helpful and caring.They wear masks ,visors ,gloves ,aprons etc when sorting my mum.Today was their day off.The replacements,today, turned up with NO PPE.I questioned why they weren’t wearing any.”Visor is broke and I’ve left my mask at home”.”I haven’t got any”.Luckily my wife has made some masks ,one of which she gave to my mum.They have been told ,No PPE,No Entry.If I see another care provider,,****ing bleating,I swear I will put my foot through the TV.

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The country has been whipped up into a frenzy by the refusal of the PM and his obnoxious sidekick to apologise and own up to the blatant breaches of the laws on isolating this deadly disease. Stay Home was his own message, seems clear to me.

The government has acted like they think they are above the law and that has damaged the nations response to this. The numbers do not lie, us the states and Brazil have the worst record on this all run by similar idiots. 

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44 minutes ago, Joe B said:

Let's forget Cummings!

Whatabout the media?

Whatabout the witness?

Whatabout Duffield?

Whatabout Starmer?

So no constructive reply then.

 

Utter uncontrollable outrage at Cummings, not bothered in the slightest when it's the media/a random bloke/a labour politician.

 

I said more than once that this was all about Cummings and had it been almost anyone else, no one would care. I think that's clearer now than ever.

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3 minutes ago, bycars rob said:

The country has been whipped up into a frenzy by the refusal of the PM and his obnoxious sidekick to apologise and own up to the blatant breaches of the laws on isolating this deadly disease. Stay Home was his own message, seems clear to me.

The government has acted like they think they are above the law and that has damaged the nations response to this. The numbers do not lie, us the states and Brazil have the worst record on this all run by similar idiots. 

You've missed the point.

 

What responsibility do the media have for reporting lies as facts. We pretty much know that they can't have had anything substantial for any of their false accusations. There were 2 bits of truth in everything that they reported which look far worse when you start from a presumption of guilt than it does when starting from a presumption of innocence.

 

 

The extreme hypocrisy of the labour party is just an interesting observation in addition to the point about the media. I'm not arguing either way what Starmer should do, other than to say that he shouldn't do the direct opposite of what he has been telling Johnson/Cummings to do over the last week.

 

 

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1. People shielding in England allowed outdoors again from Monday

Vulnerable people in England who have been asked to stay at home since the coronavirus lockdown began 10 weeks ago will be allowed to go outdoors once a day from Monday. The new guidance will allow those shielding to go outside with members of their own household, or for those living alone, with one other person from another household while maintaining social distancing.

Confusing?

"asked to stay at home"........  which implies no legal compulsion, a request.

"will be allowed"...... implies there is a compulsion that is being lifted.

You can't allow someone to carry out a lawful act, they have a right to do it unless the law says you can't, which would make it an unlawful act.

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9 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

So no constructive reply then.

 

Utter uncontrollable outrage at Cummings, not bothered in the slightest when it's the media/a random bloke/a labour politician.

 

I said more than once that this was all about Cummings and had it been almost anyone else, no one would care. I think that's clearer now than ever.

I have decided to test my eyesight tomorrow.

I'm off to the local shooting club, I'm leaving my specs at home because they interfere with my mask. I was initially thinking of a hand gun but my distance vision is more important to test, so I'm going for the rifle without the telescopic sight.... that would be cheating.

On second thoughts I will wear my spectacles while driving as I'm as blind as a bat without them..... on short and intermediate distance anyway.

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9 minutes ago, geosname said:

I have decided to test my eyesight tomorrow.

I'm off to the local shooting club, I'm leaving my specs at home because they interfere with my mask. I was initially thinking of a hand gun but my distance vision is more important to test, so I'm going for the rifle without the telescopic sight.... that would be cheating.

On second thoughts I will wear my spectacles while driving as I'm as blind as a bat without them..... on short and intermediate distance anyway.

So it is all about Cummings personally, rather than his actions?

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16 minutes ago, geosname said:

1. People shielding in England allowed outdoors again from Monday

Vulnerable people in England who have been asked to stay at home since the coronavirus lockdown began 10 weeks ago will be allowed to go outdoors once a day from Monday. The new guidance will allow those shielding to go outside with members of their own household, or for those living alone, with one other person from another household while maintaining social distancing.

Confusing?

"asked to stay at home"........  which implies no legal compulsion, a request.

"will be allowed"...... implies there is a compulsion that is being lifted.

You can't allow someone to carry out a lawful act, they have a right to do it unless the law says you can't, which would make it an unlawful act.

Personal choice, you maybe "allowed to", but it is a personal choice of how safe you are going to be  since shielding covers a vast range of conditions.  Of more concern to me would be health/medical visitors to their residence, whether they are properly clothed or not.

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13 minutes ago, geosname said:

I have decided to test my eyesight tomorrow.

I'm off to the local shooting club, I'm leaving my specs at home because they interfere with my mask. I was initially thinking of a hand gun but my distance vision is more important to test, so I'm going for the rifle without the telescopic sight.... that would be cheating.

On second thoughts I will wear my spectacles while driving as I'm as blind as a bat without them..... on short and intermediate distance anyway.

Don't forget to pick winding country lanes and stick a young child on the back seat.

A 60 mile round trip should do it.

If you're really lucky, there's a million to one chance you might find yourself in a beautiful tourist sport with a castle and a river.

Probably quite a good choice if it was someone's birthday.

 

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7 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Personal choice, you maybe "allowed to", but it is a personal choice of how safe you are going to be  since shielding covers a vast range of conditions.  Of more concern to me would be health/medical visitors to their residence, whether they are properly clothed or not.

Which has been and is my concern, Fosse.

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