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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Because as with Parliament, there has been a number of pupils in school throughout this crisis.  Now three year groups are being asked to return to school but no extras are being allowed in Parliament.  Why not?

Because it would entail lots of MPs travelling many miles from different areas?  Maybe.

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41 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Because it would entail lots of MPs travelling many miles from different areas?  Maybe.

It's perfectly OK for people in government and Parliament to travel where the hell they like and claim the Cummings precedent.

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12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

It's perfectly OK for people in government and Parliament to travel where the hell they like and claim the Cummings precedent.

Does that include the eye test

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13 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

It's perfectly OK for people in government and Parliament to travel where the hell they like and claim the Cummings precedent.

This of course is very true.

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Great article from the British Journal of Medicine.

It states (in Bold below) that this model of easing lockdown wasn’t one of the 9 scenarios the government modelled... why would then suddenly change tactics? 

Maybe to cover up the mess it’s made and try and distract the public (see second bold paragraph)

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2102

England is abandoning lockdown and possibly hope of containing a second wave of covid-19. From 1 June schools will open to children other than those of key workers. Outdoor markets and car showrooms will reopen. In two weeks, it will be the turn of all non-essential retailers. This is meant to be a moment of optimism, a green recovery, centred on the health of people and the planet (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2077, doi:10.1136/bmj.m2076), backed by an effective system of testing and contact tracing and possibly informed by a public inquiry (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2052).

Instead, England arrives here in a state of utter confusion (doi:10.1136/bmj.m1785). The public’s confidence in the official lockdown advice is shaken. The covid-19 response is short on testing, uncertain on contact tracing, and reliant on unreliable apps (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2085). Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are not following England’s lead. The UK has the second highest number of covid-19 deaths of any nation and, by some calculations, the most deaths per capita.

England’s decisions seem rooted in a desire to restart the economy rather than an overabundance of science (doi:10.1136/bmj.m1847, doi:10.1136/bmj.m2045), an important aim except that it may backfire unless properly timed and with the right systems in place. Easing lockdown requires professional as well as public backing, and the decision on schools is opposed by teaching unions concerned about the lack of a proper system of test, trace and isolate.

These concerns are shared by the Independent Scientific Advisory Group for Emergenices (iSAGE), whose open meeting on 22 May and paper on school reopening recommend waiting until mid-June to reduce risks (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2079). The government published its own scientific advice soon after, although curiously its chosen method of reopening is not one of the nine scenarios modelled (https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/22/ministers-rejected-school-reopening-plan-recommended-by-sage-experts).

Transparency and political interference in scientific advice was controversial even before a trip to Durham by Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s senior aide. It seems incredible that Dominic Cummings, who attended the government’s scientific advisory committee and plays a key role in the pandemic response, thought it reasonable to carry covid-19 from London to a region of lower infectivity and into a local hospital.

Johnson’s darkest hour, his decision to essentially prioritise Cummings over the pandemic response, had at least three immediate effects. First and foremost, it seriously damaged public trust and goodwill in complying with lockdown measures, risking a deadlier next wave of infection. Second, it belittled staff and patients who have risen to complex logistic, clinical and personal challenges while delivering care (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2043, doi:10.1136/bmj.m2055, doi:10.1136/bmj.m2062, doi:10.1136/bmj.m1987). Third, it forced the government’s scientific advisers into open dissent (doi:10.1136/bmj.m2109).

Scientists and doctors in advisory positions face a dual obligation to the state and to the public. But what happens when the government’s integrity no longer matches your personal or professional integrity, when your public accountability seems greater than that of the politicians you advise? Do you fight from within? Do you speak out, and even resign? What of the leaders of medical organisations working closely with the government? Regrettably, questions of conscience and duty must now be addressed

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Err on the side of caution is my motto at present.  Stay at home has not changed, why such a vast range of shielded cases were told it was OK out of the blue, it  was not a medical decision. Most people affected will be careful I am sure, purely a gimmick in my mind.  Happy Monday is a very big risk.

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41 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Err on the side of caution is my motto at present.  Stay at home has not changed, why such a vast range of shielded cases were told it was OK out of the blue, it  was not a medical decision. Most people affected will be careful I am sure, purely a gimmick in my mind.  Happy Monday is a very big risk.

Spot on Fosse. What is the methodology being employed by the Government. More lies today on the Propaganda show,  as Hancock just like his boss, stuttered and bluffed his way through, Track and Trace another in a long list of lies.

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Is it odd you can have sex with your lodger but not your neighbour?..... or at least you can't do it indoors but you can outdoors.

There are new rules about what you can't do on/in your own property but the police have no power under corona virus rules to enter your garden or house to enforce them...... I suspect that little mistake will soon be circumvented by the ever creative thin blue line....." there is someone inside who reportedly/we suspect has covid 19" and we need to isolate them for testing?..... imminent danger/threat?....... terror threat?..... etc etc

You can travel any distance you want (in England)  but you can't stay anywhere overnight..... which poses several questions..... do I have to continue driving if I have an eyesight problem?...... what is the legal/police definition of overnight?

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Under data protection rules a full impact assessment must be carried out before implementation..... there has been no assessment done on track and trace.

In NI information gathered by track and trace could be used for 2 years after the pandemic.

In the UK the company operating track and trace released thousands of email addresses of its workers before it became operational but stated it would not report it's self for breaching data protection..... in these people we trust?

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Mps are revolting, apparently, over the proposed quarantining of travellers. 

Boris is, apparently, now in favour of "air briges"...... although why any country would agree to relax travel with a country with the second highest death rate in the world beggers belief...... so just the USA then??

The proposed quarantine rules have anomalies..... arriving passengers can use public transport leaving the airport, food shopping and giving more than one address they will quarantine at..... and others...... all of which seem to defeat the object of the quarantine 

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As a comparison....... Thailand has a similar population to UK. 

Deaths... 57

Confirmed cases... 3,082

New cases......

local .. 0.... all new cases over several days have been from Thais returning from international destinations.

All arrivals are quarantined...... 20 arriving from the UK had high fever

33% of Thailand's economy is tourist related.

Major differences?

All arrivals get quarantined, temperature checks entering buildings and populated areas, curfew 10pm - 4.00am, face masks,  police road checkpoints between districts, average temperature 35c daytime.

Forgot the most important bit...... no flights, airport lockdown, international and domestic..... only repatriation flights allowed.

Yes the death rate is 57..... not 57,000

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3 hours ago, geosname said:

Is it odd you can have sex with your lodger but not your neighbour?..... or at least you can't do it indoors but you can outdoors.

 

How can you do that from 2m away? Unless I've been doing it wrong. 

Edited by WV
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47 minutes ago, WV said:

 

How can you do that from 2m away? Unless I've been doing it wrong. 

 

47 minutes ago, WV said:

 

How can you do that from 2m away? Unless I've been doing it wrong. 

I’d be in certain type of films if I could.

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1 hour ago, WV said:

 

How can you do that from 2m away? Unless I've been doing it wrong. 

I was referring to the legality not the actuality. 

Although you could claim you were testing your eyesight?...... commonly called a "Cummings" 😊

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4 hours ago, geosname said:

As a comparison....... Thailand has a similar population to UK. 

Deaths... 57

Confirmed cases... 3,082

New cases......

local .. 0.... all new cases over several days have been from Thais returning from international destinations.

All arrivals are quarantined...... 20 arriving from the UK had high fever

33% of Thailand's economy is tourist related.

Major differences?

All arrivals get quarantined, temperature checks entering buildings and populated areas, curfew 10pm - 4.00am, face masks,  police road checkpoints between districts, average temperature 35c daytime.

Forgot the most important bit...... no flights, airport lockdown, international and domestic..... only repatriation flights allowed.

Yes the death rate is 57..... not 57,000

How accurate is the reporting though?   We know Thailand has one of the biggest wealth gaps in the world and that suicide amoungst the poorest is high, something that has been reported has increased as the Thai people struggle to get the state aid the have been promised.  When somebody with nothing dies, how is it recorded?

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I get why our infection rate might be greater, I get why that might differ but death ratios should be about the same shouldnt they?   Maybe even higher in countries that dont have adequate health care?  We have never been overwhelmed and yet have the highest deaths....  does that not make anybody wonder about the reporting reliability of other countries, even in the EU?

I think, and it's only a feeling, we have been particularly transparent with out numbers and possible even attributed many deaths to Covid that others might not have done.

I simply dont believe the countries who claim 57 when other countries are in 1000s or tens of....  do Thailand mean 57 deaths that matter?

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35 minutes ago, geosname said:

I was referring to the legality not the actuality. 

Although you could claim you were testing your eyesight?...... commonly called a "Cummings" 😊

When the Tracking and Tracing Starts

The S***ging stops.😉

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28 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

I get why our infection rate might be greater, I get why that might differ but death ratios should be about the same shouldnt they?   Maybe even higher in countries that dont have adequate health care?  We have never been overwhelmed and yet have the highest deaths....  does that not make anybody wonder about the reporting reliability of other countries, even in the EU?

I think, and it's only a feeling, we have been particularly transparent with out numbers and possible even attributed many deaths to Covid that others might not have done.

I simply dont believe the countries who claim 57 when other countries are in 1000s or tens of....  do Thailand mean 57 deaths that matter?

Germany don’t count deaths as Covid if the person had health underlying conditions.Italy and I think Spain don’t count care homes.Excess death figures are probably the best guide.I too think we have been too honest with figures compared with other countries.Until there is a one fits all there will be discrepancies.Russia? Honestly? China? Honestly?Thailand can’t possibly know how many people have Covid in their country.They haven’t done that much testing.The UK are now in the top group of testers in the world.

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