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3 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

If you are showing symptoms self isolate at home, not 200 miles away. End of.  Jenrick also did it and got away with it. Are these people different, or should they obey the law like most of Joe Public are doing.

 

100% agree. 

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Hi all, An announcement from OVF Towers... this evening I will be putting a few things in place to hopefully help some users out during the pandemic,  particularly during the self-isolation perio

I am a law abiding citizen. I have never even had a parking ticket and I am in my 60th year. I accept that the Government has had a very difficult job but they have made a complete horlicks of it. The

Just don’t understand the need for politics to become involved in this. It’s a world wide pandemic come what may. Let’s rally round together. Sadly impossible as too many keep trying to gain some form

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11 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

Kinnock travelled on the same weekend as Cummings.How do you know he wasn’t carrying the virus?How did Kinnock know?Looks like you’ve got Cummings off the hook.Both ,just to repeat,both, should be sacked.BTW ,it was his wife who was infected.

Not defending anyone here.What if he had asked his very near relatives and they didn’t want to have the child for fear of catching the virus?

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2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

More importantly big article in the Times this morning, Government wasted 22 days in implementing Action against the virus, costing thousands of lives. Scientists have also been saying this as well. I couldn't care less for Johnsons boss Cummings, but the big mistakes made early on the virus action are shocking, putting the public at major risk, and costing untold lives.

Lilttle wonder The Potteries Tory propaganda group are in overdrive.

Do you think the Stay Alert strategy is working Track and Trace Tommy,or is it too early to say?😉.

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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

It is not a football match,  Johnson only holds Cumming`s cards, a weak manager risks his own position, especially now the back benches are getting restless.

Sack him,simple.

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43 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Of course you agree with Ferguson stepping down, he wasn't a Tory.

Neither is Cummings!  By his own admission he has never been a member of any political party.  His politcal ideas are far from "conservative" and not at all like the principles of a Conservative Party which wants to conserve and defend the insititutions of the country.  His advertisment for people to apply for jobs with him who were weirdos and wild cards clearly showed that far from wanting to conserve, he actually wants to disrupt.  Karl Marx would have loved him which is why I find the support he garners amongs the conservatives on this forum quite bizarre.

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This administration are in power on the back of the brexit campaign, in which their main campaign point was the argument that the EU is full of un-elected bureaucrats.

They are now bending over backwards to defend an un-elected bureaucrat.

How odd. 

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49 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

Not defending anyone here.What if he had asked his very near relatives and they didn’t want to have the child for fear of catching the virus?

Keep going Howj, you will find some excuse, but perhaps you won't.

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14 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

Do you think the Stay Alert strategy is working Track and Trace Tommy,or is it too early to say?😉.

Cannot understand why they changed it from Stay at home, we all understood that, well perhaps not all. Track and trace seems to have gone quiet, it was promised to be out when the schools open, the clock is ticking, why does a country like S Korea have a T and T that works very effectively?

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First trip to Durham coincided with his mothers birthday. Called Morag. Sounds a bit of a dragon.

Second trip coincided with his wifes birthday.

What a nice coincidence!

 

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7 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Cannot understand why they changed it from Stay at home, we all understood that, well perhaps not all. Track and trace seems to have gone quiet, it was promised to be out when the schools open, the clock is ticking, why does a country like S Korea have a T and T that works very effectively?

That’s my new pet name for you Tommy.T and T Tommy.Dont you like it?😉

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1 hour ago, robf said:

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say. 

At what point did anyone in authority say it was perfectly fineWhat  to travel a 480 miles round trip when knowingly infected? Please fire over a link because I thought the message was stay at home and protect the NHS. 

That's the point Rob,

 

The great freedom we enjoy in this country means that usually the Government legislates to tell us what we cannot do, rather than what we can do.

 

There is no law saying that you must not arrange child care for your toddler if you reasonably believe that you will be incapacitated shortly.

 

What we do have is a law which, like every other law in this country, is open to interpretation. We also have the guidence from the Government on how it should be interpreted and we all know the context in which is was made and the reasons behind why the law was made - these are all factors a court would take into account if they were asked to make a judgement on a particular law.

 

We know that the Government's Deputy Chief Medical Officer told the nation in the afternoon press conference on 23rd March 2020 that that if parents become too ill to look after a child, then that would be an exception circumstance.

 

 

The issue here is, do you think someone who reasonably believes that they have Coronavirus along with their spouse, should self isolate in their main residence for at least 14 days even if it means that they cannot care for their toddler adequately?

 

If you answer that question as "yes" then we will never agree and there's not much point continuing the conversation.

If you answer that question as "no" or even a "no but..." then we have found some common ground at least.

 

 

Here are some sources:

 

 

Quote

 

If you are living with children

Keep following this advice to the best of your ability, however, we are aware that not all these measures will be possible.

What we have seen so far is that children with coronavirus (COVID-19) appear to be less severely affected. It is nevertheless important to do your best to follow this guidance.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

 

Quote

The day after lockdown began, 24 March, the deputy chief medical officer for England, Dr Jenny Harries, clarified who could look after a child if both parents or carers were incapacitated.

She said: "Clearly if you have adults who are unable to look after a small child, that is an exceptional circumstance. And if the individuals do not have access to care support - formal care support - or to family, they will be able to work through their local authority hubs."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52784152

 

It's beyond any doubt. The first trip to Durham, which according to the information at hand, was so that they could isolate in a self-contained apartment near to their extended family, incase they needed emergency childcare should they become so ill that they cannot care for their child, is not unreasonable and does not break any part of the lockdown rules.

 

To be clear - If he travelled back up to Durham to look at some bluebells, then whilst not necessarily a breach (the rules on travelling within England have always been a bit unclear) then it is definitely against the spirit of the lockdown and I would support a movement for him to resign. If it is true.

 

 

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The timeline of the story is interesting.  On 27th March Cummings was seen running from Downing Street after the PM announced he had tested positive.  His wife, in her Spectator article, then explains that 24 hours later Cummings collapsed.  She goes on to say, "Day in, day out for 10 days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms."  So did he rush home to get in his car and drive straight to  to Durham because it seems neither of them was in a fit state to do so 24 hours later?  His wife makes no mention of that in her article that they were anywhere but their home in London.  Indeed, on 30th March No 10 confirmed that Cummings was self-isolating at home.  At the end of her article, his wife talked about emerging into a strange London lockdown.  Yet surely they emerged into Durham, not London.  So was her entire article simply a cover up of what they had actually done?

I also think it is extremely sad that Mr and Mrs Cummings didn't a single family member of friend prepared to help them in a 250 mile radius of London.

 

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1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

If you are showing symptoms self isolate at home, not 200 miles away. End of.  Jenrick also did it and got away with it. Are these people different, or should they obey the law like most of Joe Public are doing.

 

 

If you are showing symptoms then it is fine to neglect your young child.

 

I'm sorry but that is not a country anyone of us really wants to live in. Partisan anti-Government sentiments aside. You are not seriously suggesting that people with Covid should make their 4 year old children care for themselves for up to 2 weeks?

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2 hours ago, robf said:

To suggest that you can simply call up a journalist with a wild claim and they would accept it and publish without fact checking is rubbish.

It's not rubbish. Respected journalists have been writing about how LK, Peston et al just regurgitate government li(n)es now. And then there was the incident where they all tweeted about how a "Labour activist" had "punched" one of Matt  Hancock's aides during the run up to the election in December when nothing of the sort had happened. Bo checking there, just repeating the source's story.

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