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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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Well said Neville.

There's a difference between not accepting the result and not agreeing with the result.  I accepted it would happen but that doesn't make me think it's the right thing to do.  The Brexiteers have been

The uproar over the migrants arriving in their inflatable rafts makes me absolutely piss myself. I'm sure I'd be labelled a naive loony lefty for the fact that I feel desperately sorry for anybody who

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

Only if there's no consequences!

(See France and Germany  for more details).

So if I can get away with it I should just do what I want, regardless of right and wrong.

Can't wait for the post Brexit Purge!

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

So if I can get away with it I should just do what I want, regardless of right and wrong.

Can't wait for the post Brexit Purge!

Well,it doesn't seem to bother the two main countries who run the EU. They are the ones who should be setting the example in the first place.

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5 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

So if I can get away with it I should just do what I want, regardless of right and wrong.

Can't wait for the post Brexit Purge!

Right and wrong is a far bigger question than brexit will ever be.

It comes down to your choice whether to do or not do.

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On 24/09/2020 at 12:32, TheSage said:

It's all rubbish, not just that one line.

Comparing noncompliance with a few internal EU regulations about water quality and air pollution to our breaking of a key important international treaty is almost as ridiculous as claiming that the EU are annexing part of the UK and going to starve people in NI. 

You cannot in good faith break an international treaty that you eagerly signed. None of us can break a legal agreement we entered into in good faith. A mortgage. A HP commitment. If you freely sign it then you must meet your obligations. It's not ambiguous or open to interpretation. 

There is a mechanism in the WA to solve disputes. And binding arbitration. The UK agreed to that too. We should use that if we think we're being treated unfairly. Any attempt to unilaterally break the Agreement is wrong on every level. 

We agreed to NI in part being part of the EU customs area, in order to avoid a hard border and threaten the GFA. That's what Johnson signed up to! But now he doesn't like it because it treats NI differently to the rest of the UK. Quelle surprise. That was why May didn't go down that route. 

We have to have a border somewhere and checks on some goods. If not in the Irish Sea, where?

 

It literally is open to interpretation. You have interpreted "a few internal eu regulations" as being less important than "OMG AN INTERNATIONAL TREATYYTDGSS!" - that's an interpretation.

 

What do you think the courts do? - They INTERPRET and apply the law.

 

You simply don't understand what you are talking about, it's time you give up on this one, move on to the next big thing that will definitely 100% defeat brexit (and then move on from that 2 weeks later).

 

 

Has any remainer in this thread actually answered whether they're happy for the EU to inject themselves into a position where they dictate what types of food the UK can send to another part of the UK?

 

That's the key question, I suspect you ignore it though because you can't answer it honestly and still maintain your position.

 

Edited by Regal Beagle

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12 hours ago, For Us All said:

Well,it doesn't seem to bother the two main countries who run the EU. They are the ones who should be setting the example in the first place.

So if mum and dad are thieves it's perfectly ok for the kids to be thieves too.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

So if mum and dad are thieves it's perfectly ok for the kids to be thieves too.

You seem to have moved your argument from right v wrong to being ok.

Is it ok if a soverign country makes it's own laws?...... I would yes.

Is it ok for a country, or group of, to try to interfere with the governance of another country?..... I would say no.

Is it ok to enforce treaties on others if you disreguard them?

Perhaps the UK could use the tried and tested excuse...... we got in with a bad crowd and were lead astray.

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2 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

You have interpreted "a few internal eu regulations" as being less important than "OMG AN INTERNATIONAL TREATYYTDGSS!" - that's an interpretation.

I'm afraid it's a fact.

To simplify it so that you can understand it better - Murdering 12 people as Fred West did is in a completely different category and far more serious than taking a pick-n-mix sweet from Asda. That's a fact. Not an interpretation. 

The problem Johnson faces is the Irish border. You need to tell us where you want it to go. I note you haven't said anything about that.

He - and the rest of his extreme right wing fruitcakes in the ERG -  have suddenly realised that what they agreed to and signed up to and sold to the electorate as an oven ready deal isn't really what they want. That's because we agreed to NI being part of the EU customs area in order to avoid a hard border on Ireland. He rejected May's backstop and so agreed to put one in the Irish Sea. But now the penny has dropped that having part of the UK in an EU customs area is separating off part of the UK from the rest of us. It means more red tape, customs checks, delays and cost on some goods. We knew that all along. That was why May rejected it. But now reality dawns and so Johnson (the lying buffoon) tells everyone he isn't going to keep his word and he doesn't want the Agreement he drew up and signed!

The Irish border is the £64,000 dollar question. We are leaving the EU single market. We have to have a border somewhere. So where?

 

Edited by TheSage
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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I'm afraid it's a fact.

To simplify it so that you can understand it better - Murdering 12 people as Fred West did is in a completely different category and far more serious than taking a pick-n-mix sweet from Asda. That's a fact. Not an interpretation. 

The problem Johnson faces is the Irish border. You need to tell us where you want it to go. I note you haven't said anything about that.

He - and the rest of his extreme right wing fruitcakes in the ERG -  have suddenly realised that what they agreed to and signed up to and sold to the electorate as an oven ready deal isn't really what they want. That's because we agreed to NI being part of the EU customs area in order to avoid a hard border on Ireland. He rejected May's backstop and so agreed to put one in the Irish Sea. But now the penny has dropped that having part of the UK in an EU customs area is separating off part of the UK from the rest of us. It means more red tape, customs checks, delays and cost on some goods. We knew that all along. That was why May rejected it. But now reality dawns and so Johnson (the lying buffoon) tells everyone he isn't going to keep his word and he doesn't want the Agreement he drew up and signed!

The Irish border is the £64,000 dollar question. We are leaving the EU single market. We have to have a border somewhere. So where?

 

A boarder already exists, as it does with all countries/nations. Perhaps you are talking about a hard/controlled boarder.

You also seem to believe it's the UKs responsibility to erect and man this boarder, where as it's the EU responsibility on their side. If they want one they should build one..... it wouldn't be a good idea but it's their choice. I doubt there would be a critical issue if we capitulated on fishing and other demands.

I realise the response sounds flippant, it's meant to be.

There is a boarder between the EU and the UK and has been whilst we were members. That wasn't a critical issue and won't become one...... you had to produce your passport when entering the EU or leaving.

My best solution would be to make Ireland one nation, but people don't seem to favour that option.

Im also in favour of giving Scotland independence,  Wales too if they want it...... it would create a large number of wall building jobs.

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2 hours ago, geosname said:

An easier explanation could be....

If mum and dad are thieves who are they to judge?

It wont be them doing the judging, it will be the rest of society or even a jury.

 

Its ok though you all seem to think its ok to do wrong as long as others are doing it as well.  

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32 minutes ago, geosname said:

I think the 64,000$ question is.

What's the EUs price to make the problem go away? 

The lack of border was the result of the Good Friday agreement, US involved in that as well.  End the partition in  Ireland, Border in the Sea , or restore the NI  land  Border are the options.  The EU  could pay the price of uniification of Ireland by paying the subsidies that the UK contribute to NI at present plus any additional costs that occur, NI would of course have to vote for it as well. 

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16 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

It wont be them doing the judging, it will be the rest of society or even a jury.

 

Its ok though you all seem to think its ok to do wrong as long as others are doing it as well.  

People judge others all the time, it seems acceptable practice.

As for doing wrong as others do..... in legal terms it's called setting a precedent. If a country breaks treaties is it just they try to enforce them on others?

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