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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

There is surely confusion here as Sage has pointed out above.  Clause 38 is not part of the Withdrawal Agreement which the EU and Johnson signed in October.  Clause 38 is part of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act which Parliament passed in January this year with agreed to the WA and which did not involve any further agreement with the EU but simply added bits which we fancied.

PS, Bill Cash is even older than Biden, whom some on here think is too old for office and is also one of the rudest men I've met.

– Parliamentary Sovereignty 

The Lords voted at Report Stage for Baroness Hayter’s amendment 20 by 239 votes to 235. It amends clause 38. 

Clause 38 is a declaratory provision to the effect that the UK Parliament is ‘sovereign’ despite the special status that the WAB will give the Withdrawal Agreement in domestic law. 

This amendment modifies the declaration of Parliamentary sovereignty, so that it explicitly takes into account the Sewel convention. It therefore provides additional constitutional context as to when and how the UK Parliament exercises its sovereign law-making powers in devolved areas. 

The legislative consent convention, which is already recognised in both the Scotland Act and the Government of Wales Act, provides that the UK Parliament will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the relevant devolved legislatures. However, as stated by the UK Supreme Court in 2017, the convention is not enforceable by the courts even where it is recognised in statute.

Changes to legislation:

There are currently no known outstanding effects for the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, Section 38.Help about Changes to Legislation

38Parliamentary sovereignty

(1)It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign.

(2)In particular, its sovereignty subsists notwithstanding—

(a)directly applicable or directly effective EU law continuing to be recognised and available in domestic law by virtue of section 1A or 1B of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (savings of existing law for the implementation period),

(b)section 7A of that Act (other directly applicable or directly effective aspects of the withdrawal agreement),

(c)section 7B of that Act (deemed direct applicability or direct effect in relation to the EEA EFTA separation agreement and the Swiss citizens' rights agreement), and

(d)section 7C of that Act (interpretation of law relating to the withdrawal agreement (other than the implementation period), the EEA EFTA separation agreement and the Swiss citizens' rights agreement).

(3)Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

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There's a difference between not accepting the result and not agreeing with the result.  I accepted it would happen but that doesn't make me think it's the right thing to do.  The Brexiteers have been

Grammar.

I hope Brexit is everything that has been promised.  I am long enough in the tooth to realise that the people making those promises have made a career from telling lies without shame. The result

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On 19/09/2020 at 13:51, Doha said:

Truly the backbone of Britain's economic output. 

I was replying to this point Sage made-

One of the basic laws of economics and trade is that it is far far better to trade with countries on your doorstep and not thousands of miles away. It's not rocket science but simple geography, involving costs and time.

portmeriron is one of the largest pottery manufacturers locally and in the UK...

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50 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I was replying to this point Sage made-

One of the basic laws of economics and trade is that it is far far better to trade with countries on your doorstep and not thousands of miles away. It's not rocket science but simple geography, involving costs and time.

portmeriron is one of the largest pottery manufacturers locally and in the UK...

I am afraid your son-in-laws mate is wrong.  South Korea account for 12% of the groups revenue.

I take your point though that other areas of the world are viable markets.  USA is Portmerrions largest market, followed by the UK, so it is possible.  However, its an industry that probably doesn't really have much home country competition in S Korea or the USA so probably not the best model.

I hope you are right and Brexit brings us future prosperity but I seriously doubt the abilities of the people running it to do so with the interests of us all in mind.

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1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

– Parliamentary Sovereignty 

The Lords voted at Report Stage for Baroness Hayter’s amendment 20 by 239 votes to 235. It amends clause 38. 

Clause 38 is a declaratory provision to the effect that the UK Parliament is ‘sovereign’ despite the special status that the WAB will give the Withdrawal Agreement in domestic law. 

This amendment modifies the declaration of Parliamentary sovereignty, so that it explicitly takes into account the Sewel convention. It therefore provides additional constitutional context as to when and how the UK Parliament exercises its sovereign law-making powers in devolved areas. 

The legislative consent convention, which is already recognised in both the Scotland Act and the Government of Wales Act, provides that the UK Parliament will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the relevant devolved legislatures. However, as stated by the UK Supreme Court in 2017, the convention is not enforceable by the courts even where it is recognised in statute.

Changes to legislation:

There are currently no known outstanding effects for the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, Section 38.Help about Changes to Legislation

38Parliamentary sovereignty

(1)It is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom is sovereign.

(2)In particular, its sovereignty subsists notwithstanding—

(a)directly applicable or directly effective EU law continuing to be recognised and available in domestic law by virtue of section 1A or 1B of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (savings of existing law for the implementation period),

(b)section 7A of that Act (other directly applicable or directly effective aspects of the withdrawal agreement),

(c)section 7B of that Act (deemed direct applicability or direct effect in relation to the EEA EFTA separation agreement and the Swiss citizens' rights agreement), and

(d)section 7C of that Act (interpretation of law relating to the withdrawal agreement (other than the implementation period), the EEA EFTA separation agreement and the Swiss citizens' rights agreement).

(3)Accordingly, nothing in this Act derogates from the sovereignty of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

What is your point?  The dispute with the EU about breaking the terms of the agreement does not relate to the EU Withdrawal Act which you quote above. 

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On 19/09/2020 at 18:43, Regal Beagle said:

Plenty of countries break international law when it is not conducive to their values/culture/laws.

Forget the hot mess of the rest of the reply, this is the key line; the emperor's new clothes.

What kind of country doesn't have values, or culture that are conducive to international law? A tinpot dictatorship; an authoritarian state, a revolution?

Loads of countries, apparently, only follow the law when it suits them. So on that basis, it's only fair, and reasonable that we should just pick and choose which laws we should follow, based on our values and culture; not the laws themselves. Maybe we should extend that train of thought, whereby individuals could also pick and choose which laws to break when they are not conducive to their values and culture. 

That seems like a sensible way to run a society.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

I am afraid your son-in-laws mate is wrong.  South Korea account for 12% of the groups revenue.

I take your point though that other areas of the world are viable markets.  USA is Portmerrions largest market, followed by the UK, so it is possible.  However, its an industry that probably doesn't really have much home country competition in S Korea or the USA so probably not the best model.

I hope you are right and Brexit brings us future prosperity but I seriously doubt the abilities of the people running it to do so with the interests of us all in mind.

Leaders will change, as long as those who come in afterwards respect the decision to leave then they too can move us forwards. 

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29 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Leaders will change, as long as those who come in afterwards respect the decision to leave then they too can move us forwards. 

May respected the decision to leave but Boris and his mates blocked it... remember?

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53 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Leaders will change, as long as those who come in afterwards respect the decision to leave then they too can move us forwards. 

Perhaps the next leader might respect international treaties as well.

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2 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I am afraid your son-in-laws mate is wrong.  South Korea account for 12% of the groups revenue.

I take your point though that other areas of the world are viable markets.  USA is Portmerrions largest market, followed by the UK, so it is possible.  However, its an industry that probably doesn't really have much home country competition in S Korea or the USA so probably not the best model.

I hope you are right and Brexit brings us future prosperity but I seriously doubt the abilities of the people running it to do so with the interests of us all in mind.

Odd thing..... my brother took his kids to Disneyland Florida,  brought back a Mikey Mouse mug for his mum, made in Thailand .

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3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

What is your point?  The dispute with the EU about breaking the terms of the agreement does not relate to the EU Withdrawal Act which you quote above. 

just pointing out that clause 38 is in the Withdraw agreement and european union withdraw act 2020... or thats how i read it. but my eyes are failing and i'm getting long in the tooth...

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6 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

just pointing out that clause 38 is in the Withdraw agreement and european union withdraw act 2020... or thats how i read it. but my eyes are failing and i'm getting long in the tooth...

It's in the Act but not in the original Withdrawal Agreement with the EU.

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