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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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There's a difference between not accepting the result and not agreeing with the result.  I accepted it would happen but that doesn't make me think it's the right thing to do.  The Brexiteers have been

Grammar.

I hope Brexit is everything that has been promised.  I am long enough in the tooth to realise that the people making those promises have made a career from telling lies without shame. The result

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2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I'm living with it - have been for ages.  Doesn't mean I like it.  And doesn't mean I like the way people on the Brexit side of the debate do nothing but gloat and pretend everything is wonderful.  It is clearly a complete bugger's muddle and with Johnson in charge, a man who has to have his briefs provide in pictures he is so lazy, it is likely to continue so.

i'm not gloating and and i don't pretend everything is wonderful, but perhaps if we all had said ok thats it, lets get on with it and make it work. The country would have been in better condition to face covid, and not facing a civil war...

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Just now, Davebrad said:

i'm not gloating and and i don't pretend everything is wonderful, but perhaps if we all had said ok thats it, lets get on with it and make it work. The country would have been in better condition to face covid, and not facing a civil war...

I wasn't referring to you with the gloating comment, Dave. 

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Just now, Davebrad said:

i'm not gloating and and i don't pretend everything is wonderful, but perhaps if we all had said ok thats it, lets get on with it and make it work. The country would have been in better condition to face covid, and not facing a civil war...

really?  Remainers not accepting the result has effected the state in which we faced Covid?  

Wow.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

So before you trundled off and voted leave, did you have a think about the Irish Border?

yes, as a matter of fact, we have family there, and regarding the position with the Good Friday Agreement, i missed the Victoria station bomb by 45mins, 

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10 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

really?  Remainers not accepting the result has effected the state in which we faced Covid?  

Wow.

 

just that if we had not wasted all this time on getting brexit done, we could have faced up to covid as the main concern...

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14 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

yes, as a matter of fact, we have family there, and regarding the position with the Good Friday Agreement, i missed the Victoria station bomb by 45mins, 

So you considered the Irish border and what might happen and still thought it was a good idea to risk it?

How does you missing the bomb by 45 mins in any way address the position with the Good Friday Agreement?  Do you think the agreement was a good thing?

Edited by Nofinikea

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11 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

just that if we had not wasted all this time on getting brexit done, we could have faced up to covid as the main concern...

True.  If the hard line Brexiteers in the ERG had voted for May's deal instead of scuppering it, Johnson would never have become PM and we might have had a cabinet with some idea of how to handle the problem.

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9 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

just that if we had not wasted all this time on getting brexit done, we could have faced up to covid as the main concern...

Brexit has only really come back to the fore since the initial wave slowed down.  Dont you think it would have been far more sensible to postpone the deadline given the pandemic?  Brexit was always going to take 3 or 4 years regardless of people not wanting it to happen.

However, reagrdless, we are where we are and when the pandemic hit, a pragmatic government would have looked to postpone.  However we have a reckless government determined to crash out without the deal Boris himself primised whilst stood in front of his Bus lie.

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18 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

An Englishman`s word is his bond,  should  not need writing down, but how times have changed.

Bloody he'll mate, you've been reading to many boys own comics.

Just a reminder.....

The war to end all wars.

It will be over by Xmas.

Peace in our time.

Weapons of mass destruction.

We will abolish student tuition fees.

Burma oil v Lord advocate...... and the following war damage act (1965?) A retroactive law to relieve the crown of responsibility.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Ok so the last one wasn't an English man but it was a doozy.

Just a sample, i'm sure like myself you can remember more like Archer, Profumo, expenses etc etc etc.

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11 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

You skirt around the FACT that Johnson attempted to run roughshod over soveriegn parliment with his poroguing.  He lied to the Queen about those reasons and was caught with his pants on fire when the judiciary put a stop to it.

Boris bangs on about Sovereignty, as do all you brexiteers but then he decided that he was not happy dancing to the tune of the Sovereign Parliment he so desperately champions so he tries to shut it down to get his own way....

Further more, the likes of yourself continue to try and explain it all away as a sovereign parliment in action, its hilarious.

Boris Johnson and his goverment are rogues, liars and thieves.  Yes thieves, they have siphoned off billions to mates during this pandemic.  They point at the evil EU and you lap it up.  Its very sad really.

I didn't skirt around anything, I clearly and accurately described why and how the judicial review went against Boris. It is in my post, read it again.

 

I can't take anyone seriously who talks about siphoning money off, feathering nests and cronyism and then uses that to support the EU. 

 

I studied UK constitutional law for a year as part of my degree. I'm still woefully unqualified to debate the intricacies and nuances of it and to boil it down to a sentence as you are is sheer lunacy. You completely fail to acknowledge the basic facts because you are desperate to try and impose WHAT YOU WANT ME TO BELIEVE, on.me, rather than engage with what I actually believe. A common tactic with people who subscribe to particular left wing politics.

 

I'll try and boil it down as simply as I can. Sovereignty refers to legislative powers, it doesn't apply to royal prerogative or common law until parliament decides to legislate to create that authority.

 

There was no direct precedent for the courts ruling on ANY part of proroguing parliament, never mind the length of time and reasons for.

 

The court made constitutional history with that ruling. 

 

That's not Boris riding roughshod (you don't have to use that word in EVERY post by the way). That's Boris using a power he believed he had and then the court deciding that he didn't have that power. Judicial reviews are relatively normal. 

 

Forgetting all of that for a second, the prorogation changed very little and the aims for which you accuse Boris of using it were later met when parliament literally voted his WA through.

 

Secondly, you have no issue with Bercow actually BREAKING constitutional precedent when it suited you. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

Try reading what I have already put on this thread.

If they did think about it, which they should, they would  have created more of an issue about it in their arguments to remain.

Remain didn't just argue about the "benefits" of remaining they argued mostly on the detriments of leaving..... were they to stupid to see a major arguing point which may have swayed more voters, another huge weapon in the fear arsenal? 

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We're going round in circles but right wing posters on here are still to condemn the government breaking the law, reneging on their manifesto commitment and making up a pack of lies to cover their dishonesty and illegality. I'm not holding my breath.

You're either against breaking the law or you condone it? What is it?

We've left. The question now is what type of sensible deal can we get. And like others I'm concerned that we're going to end up with No Deal and our global reputation irretrievably damaged, as well as risking the future of NI.  You've only got to hear what 5 ex PMs think about it, as well as the Irish government and now Joe Biden. To so easily ignore the warnings of such a cross section of experienced politicians is a bit silly.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, TheSage said:

We're going round in circles but right wing posters on here are still to condemn the government breaking the law, reneging on their manifesto commitment and making up a pack of lies to cover their dishonesty and illegality. I'm not holding my breath.

You're either against breaking the law or you condone it? What is it?

We've left. The question now is what type of sensible deal can we get. And like others I'm concerned that we're going to end up with No Deal and our global reputation irretrievably damaged, as well as risking the future of NI.  You've only got to hear what 5 ex PMs think about it, as well as the Irish government and now Joe Biden. To so easily ignore the warnings of such a cross section of experienced politicians is a bit silly.

 

 

 

As I've posted previously...... making or passing of the new law is not against the law anywhere from what I have read. It may possibly be against international law if it is acted upon, until then it's not unlawful.

As for the revious PMs thoughts, where do you start.....

Blair?.. WMD

Cameron.. started the brexit ball rolling then buggered off because he lost.

May.. as many have said as much use as a fart in a bottle, couldn't negotiate a free oap bus pass.

Do we need to go on?

As for Biden who gives a rat's ass, about as much use as trump.

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