Jump to content

Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, Mario said:

I fully understand why refugees want to leave Syria, it's quite obvious, what's not obvious to me is why travel  across EU democratic countries, get to France and then risk their lives again by trying to cross the channel in a cheap swimming pool dinghy ? After paying probably their life savings to a slave/gang master.

 

 

They speak English?  They have friends/family here? 

There are four times as many asylum seeks in Germany and twice as many in France.  Many do not make the journey to England. 

Why do you think they risk their lives in this way?  And don't tell me it's to claim benefits because I will simply laugh at you.  Have you seen how much an asylum seeker is awarded in cash benefits?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

There's a difference between not accepting the result and not agreeing with the result.  I accepted it would happen but that doesn't make me think it's the right thing to do.  The Brexiteers have been

Grammar.

I hope Brexit is everything that has been promised.  I am long enough in the tooth to realise that the people making those promises have made a career from telling lies without shame. The result

Posted Images

19 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

They speak English?  They have friends/family here? 

There are four times as many asylum seeks in Germany and twice as many in France.  Many do not make the journey to England. 

Why do you think they risk their lives in this way?  And don't tell me it's to claim benefits because I will simply laugh at you.  Have you seen how much an asylum seeker is awarded in cash benefits?

How long does it take to gain asylum  having friends/family here whilst in a camp in France?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

They speak English?  They have friends/family here? 

There are four times as many asylum seeks in Germany and twice as many in France.  Many do not make the journey to England. 

Why do you think they risk their lives in this way?  And don't tell me it's to claim benefits because I will simply laugh at you.  Have you seen how much an asylum seeker is awarded in cash benefits?

I have no idea whatsoever why someone would want to paddle across the Channel, it's a mystery to me, Syria must be one of the worst places on earth, so I would have thought that to escape that hell hole would be a success, to undertake a trip across the channel and risk further danger is madness.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Mario said:

I have no idea whatsoever why someone would want to paddle across the Channel, it's a mystery to me, Syria must be one of the worst places on earth, so I would have thought that to escape that hell hole would be a success, to undertake a trip across the channel and risk further danger is madness.

 

I think you are missing the point.  The few that end up trying to make the journey, and it is a relatively small number of them, probably feel that the UK offers better long term prospects for them due to them being able to speak the language.  It most deffinately is not so they can claim benefits despite what Phil might have us all believe.

Instead of trying to understand it, ask yourself, if these people are so determined to reach the UK that they are prepared to drown attempting to get here then they must have a very good reason for it and as humans, shouldn't we be trying to help them?

Anybody chosing to ignore the tragedy of a 16 year old boys body being washed up on a French beach whilst banging on about getting lost in a system to claim benefits is a massive dong...

Edited by Nofinikea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/08/2020 at 23:03, Nofinikea said:

What incentive is that?

Read the twitter thread i posted above.

 

They get put to the front of the asylum queue if they're already here, they get paid nominal benefits and many also work illegally, not paying tax and sometimes criminally. No part of this is "good" or "moral". There's a greater cost to the tax payer meaning a reduced amount of money that could be helping others elsewhere, in lost taxes, in funding police and border patrol, in running a ferry service, in paying for hotels to house them, the benefits that they do get.

 

If you want to debate whether we should take more asylum seekers then fine, but surely we should focus on those most in need first, not people who are financially able to reach calais and willing to break the law to get to the front of the queue. Many of them lie about their background because they know that they stand a better chance of claiming asylum.

 

There are obviously incentives for them or else they wouldn't risk their lives doing it. The twitter thread above not only describes legitimately oppressed people fleeing persecution, it describes graduates from Iran who simply say that there's no better time to try and get into the UK, people from Egypt claiming to be Syrian.

 

These are the people we want to prioritise for asylum? ahead of people in actual camps in Syria, ahead of people who are genuinely in fear of persecution over the world, who are desperately poor and can't afford to reach Calais?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Read the twitter thread i posted above.

 

They get put to the front of the asylum queue if they're already here, they get paid nominal benefits and many also work illegally, not paying tax and sometimes criminally. No part of this is "good" or "moral". There's a greater cost to the tax payer meaning a reduced amount of money that could be helping others elsewhere, in lost taxes, in funding police and border patrol, in running a ferry service, in paying for hotels to house them, the benefits that they do get.

 

If you want to debate whether we should take more asylum seekers then fine, but surely we should focus on those most in need first, not people who are financially able to reach calais and willing to break the law to get to the front of the queue. Many of them lie about their background because they know that they stand a better chance of claiming asylum.

 

There are obviously incentives for them or else they wouldn't risk their lives doing it. The twitter thread above not only describes legitimately oppressed people fleeing persecution, it describes graduates from Iran who simply say that there's no better time to try and get into the UK, people from Egypt claiming to be Syrian.

 

These are the people we want to prioritise for asylum? ahead of people in actual camps in Syria, ahead of people who are genuinely in fear of persecution over the world, who are desperately poor and can't afford to reach Calais?

 

 

that twitter feed is just the unverified experiences of somebody who clearly has a predetermined opinion on the situation.  It is not reliable evidence of anything you claim it is.  Its just a social media post - nothing more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

that twitter feed is just the unverified experiences of somebody who clearly has a predetermined opinion on the situation.  It is not reliable evidence of anything you claim it is.  Its just a social media post - nothing more. 

Not sure if you are aware by RB demands differing levels of evidence depending on whether he agrees with the argument or not.

If you had used a post like that he would be up in arms about a lack of concrete evidence.

You just have to roll with it because he gets very upset if you point it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have difficulty understanding why some posters tell us in one breath that the UK is the a wonderful country and will be even better with Brexit yet in the next breath can't understand why people want to come and live here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Read the twitter thread i posted above.

 

They get put to the front of the asylum queue if they're already here, they get paid nominal benefits and many also work illegally, not paying tax and sometimes criminally. No part of this is "good" or "moral". There's a greater cost to the tax payer meaning a reduced amount of money that could be helping others elsewhere, in lost taxes, in funding police and border patrol, in running a ferry service, in paying for hotels to house them, the benefits that they do get.

 

If you want to debate whether we should take more asylum seekers then fine, but surely we should focus on those most in need first, not people who are financially able to reach calais and willing to break the law to get to the front of the queue. Many of them lie about their background because they know that they stand a better chance of claiming asylum.

 

There are obviously incentives for them or else they wouldn't risk their lives doing it. The twitter thread above not only describes legitimately oppressed people fleeing persecution, it describes graduates from Iran who simply say that there's no better time to try and get into the UK, people from Egypt claiming to be Syrian.

 

These are the people we want to prioritise for asylum? ahead of people in actual camps in Syria, ahead of people who are genuinely in fear of persecution over the world, who are desperately poor and can't afford to reach Calais?

 

 

Spot on. Also, a lot of the asylum seekers coming across are not from war torn countries it from Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt etc. But it is so hard for authorities to tell as miraculously they have lost their passports on the journey.

legitimate asylum claims should take priority over those who have travelled through safe countries to get to the U.K. ( or any other European country).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I assume you all read the tweet on here from Neville Southall and his experience in coaching young asylum seekers?

Yes, I did read the supposed tweet from Neville. Nobody is saying asylum seekers are horrible people, I for one have employed previous asylum seekers and have found them very likeable and hard working but there does need to be a system put in place to prevent anyone coming to the U.K. from safe countries and claiming asylum that way as well as those flying from anywhere and claiming asylum without any documentation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Spot on. Also, a lot of the asylum seekers coming across are not from war torn countries it from Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt etc. But it is so hard for authorities to tell as miraculously they have lost their passports on the journey.

 

For the 12 months ending Sept 2019 there were 1,919 asylum applicants from Pakistan, a drop of 13% on the previous year.  There were 793 from Turkey.  I can't find the figure for Egypt because it is not in the list of top 20 countries which goes down to Namibia with 344. 

Bear in mind also that somewhere in the region of 4 million UK passport holders live abroad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

I think you are missing the point.  The few that end up trying to make the journey, and it is a relatively small number of them, probably feel that the UK offers better long term prospects for them due to them being able to speak the language.  It most deffinately is not so they can claim benefits despite what Phil might have us all believe.

Instead of trying to understand it, ask yourself, if these people are so determined to reach the UK that they are prepared to drown attempting to get here then they must have a very good reason for it and as humans, shouldn't we be trying to help them?

Anybody chosing to ignore the tragedy of a 16 year old boys body being washed up on a French beach whilst banging on about getting lost in a system to claim benefits is a massive dong...

My point has always been that crossing the channel is a very dangerous practice and the French should do all in their power to stop refugees from putting their fragile lives at further risk.

You say we should be trying to help them....Fine....So how many would you allow to travel to the UK ? How many 10's of thousands would you agree to come ? When would you draw the line ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Mario said:

My point has always been that crossing the channel is a very dangerous practice and the French should do all in their power to stop refugees from putting their fragile lives at further risk.

You say we should be trying to help them....Fine....So how many would you allow to travel to the UK ? How many 10's of thousands would you agree to come ? When would you draw the line ?

The whole world should be free to roam as far as I am concerned.  Its only lines on a map made by men with blood that cause the problem.  Let as many in as want to come and build a better future for them and their families.

I think we forget how fortunate we are to have been born to this country, especially when we start telling people from other continents they can't have the same opportunities we take for granted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

The whole world should be free to roam as far as I am concerned.  Its only lines on a map made by men with blood that cause the problem.  Let as many in as want to come and build a better future for them and their families.

 

So..... You would let in as many as want to come ? Dont bother about social care,  dont worry about health care, don't worry about education, don't worry about housing, dont worry about security, ........don't worry about anything, La La Land that is ...

You're a wind up merchant, period.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing isn't it... we have fallen into the same trap the Tory favouring media hoped we would. (Im not saying all media is Tory favouring before people get all cross and grumpy)

Brexit is coming up against some challenging times... so lets turn the focus to Illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. And people LAP it up... cant get enough if it.

One tactic is to play the "I just care for them" side of the story (But not enough to have them in my land).

Or the "They are all criminals" line... taking individual stories as meaning that's gospel for everyone.

Or the "Well how many should we let in then", or "Would you have one of them live in your house".... Here is an answer to that... no I wouldnt, but then I wouldnt have a UK national I didnt know live in my house, I wouldnt have my Brother live here either... I pay a significant portion of my salary as tax to the government so I would like them to come up with the solutions. If they want to give me my tax back I would happily use some of it to give to charity and fund some shelters.

But the point that is being missed is.... This all started because it was made painfully clear that Brexit would make it harder for us to return illegal immigrants to France. That's a fact. No one likes acknowledging it so they shift the attention.

Even worse we then have some posters who show their bias so much they use phrases like "Supposed tweet" when its a tweet that doesnt support their view

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

Yes, I did read the supposed tweet from Neville.

What exactly was "Supposed" about it Phil...

Did the tweet not actually happen? In which case how did you read it?

Or is the content not true? In which case how is the tweet the RB put up any different... but that one is ok. Its super weak.

 

Brexit has made it harder for us to return illegal immigrants back to where they came from. We have LESS control of our boarders on that matter. 

 

Edited by Iron Curtain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mario said:

So..... You would let in as many as want to come ? Dont bother about social care,  dont worry about health care, don't worry about education, don't worry about housing, dont worry about security, ........don't worry about anything, La La Land that is ...

You're a wind up merchant, period.

How many do you think want to come?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    Moderators don't read everything. Please don't assume we'll spot rule breaking (e.g. personal abuse) - use the orange report button above a post to alert them.

    If you can't get on with another forum user you can select the "ignore" option. Simply click on the link below, type in their username and save - Click here




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy