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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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On 22/06/2022 at 12:18, hillmanhunter said:

No you haven't. Still waiting on examples for your vague points (2 to 7).

I'll repeat your list, maybe it helps.

2. Decreased complexity of exporting to the RoW How does leaving EU decrease complexity of exporting to EU? Example?

3. Decreased complexity of exporting to the RoW I'm guessing you meant importing from here. Example?

4. Potential increase to GDP Larf. Yeah, right. How?

5. Increased capacity for skilled RoW workers. What has leaving the EU got to do with RoW workers? 

6. Decreased complexity of working in RoW Go on then. Talk us through that.

7. Price decreases. Can we expext just price decreases or price increases as well? If so, how do they balance out?

 

2. I said RoW not EU. Obviously trade with the EU becomes more complex than what it was because we're outside of the single market and their Governance. But we're now free to negotiate whatever deals we want with any other country in the world. 

3. Yeah importing, as above, same answer.

4. There's no reason it can't go up at all. There are 160 odd countries in the world who are outside of the EU and now we have the ability to negotiate bespoke trade deals with them. This is quite a dishonest argument from the remain side.

5. If we no longer have to allow an unlimited amount of unskilled EU workers in we can increase the amount of skilled RoW workers we accept. 

6. Exactly the same as how the complexity of working in EU is reduced for EU countries. A great current example is how the Indian Government is negotiating for easier/cheaper work and study visas as part of the trade deal with us. If two countries agree it then the complexity can be reduced and now we are not restricted in who we can negotiate with and for what. 

7. Sure there may be short term price increases caused or exacerbated by brexit but after that prices can go up or down for the usual reasons. There's absolutely potential for lower prices in the future, the same way as there is potential for higher prices. 

 

If you are specifically talking about short term price increases then I'll accept that and specifically make my benefit to be the potential for long term price decreases.

 

 

 

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Just now, Regal Beagle said:

😂 Of course brexit is terrible if you pretend none of the benefits exist. 

 

 

Rees-Mogg was on LBC this morning. Do you know what his latest Brexit benefit is? Best one yet, I reckon.

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9 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

2. I said RoW not EU. Obviously trade with the EU becomes more complex than what it was because we're outside of the single market and their Governance. But we're now free to negotiate whatever deals we want with any other country in the world. 

3. Yeah importing, as above, same answer.

4. There's no reason it can't go up at all. There are 160 odd countries in the world who are outside of the EU and now we have the ability to negotiate bespoke trade deals with them. This is quite a dishonest argument from the remain side.

5. If we no longer have to allow an unlimited amount of unskilled EU workers in we can increase the amount of skilled RoW workers we accept. 

6. Exactly the same as how the complexity of working in EU is reduced for EU countries. A great current example is how the Indian Government is negotiating for easier/cheaper work and study visas as part of the trade deal with us. If two countries agree it then the complexity can be reduced and now we are not restricted in who we can negotiate with and for what. 

7. Sure there may be short term price increases caused or exacerbated by brexit but after that prices can go up or down for the usual reasons. There's absolutely potential for lower prices in the future, the same way as there is potential for higher prices. 

 

If you are specifically talking about short term price increases then I'll accept that and specifically make my benefit to be the potential for long term price decreases.

 

 

 

2. Yeah, that was  a typo on my part. So 42% of our exports and 50% of our imports become more complicated. Maybe we can replace some of that with RoW. But things like perishable goods will be very difficult to impossible. 

3. As above.

4.  You'd have to show how these new trade deals will make up for the current 4% hit to GDP. 

5. This is not true. Germany sends EU immigrants home after 3 months if they don't have a job. We could've done the same. The EU has no say on RoW workers. We could always allow as many or as few as we wanted.

6. Could've done it anyway so not a Brexit positive.

7. 6 years in and you're still trying to sell jam tomorrow. How will the price of perishable goods go down? 

 

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4 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

Rees-Mogg was on LBC this morning. Do you know what his latest Brexit benefit is? Best one yet, I reckon.

I've seen an article about him using fish fingers as an example, is that what you are on about?

 

3 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

2. Yeah, that was  a typo on my part. So 42% of our exports and 50% of our imports become more complicated. Maybe we can replace some of that with RoW. But things like perishable goods will be very difficult to impossible. 

3. As above.

4.  You'd have to show how these new trade deals will make up for the current 4% hit to GDP. 

5. This is not true. Germany sends EU immigrants home after 3 months if they don't have a job. We could've done the same. The EU has no say on RoW workers. We could always allow as many or as few as we wanted.

6. Could've done it anyway so not a Brexit positive.

7. 6 years in and you're still trying to sell jam tomorrow. How will the price of perishable goods go down? 

2/3. Only if we deal with the EU for the same things which we won't. Again, it's more interesting to see what you've not said there, that at least 58% of exports and 50% of imports could become easier if we get trade deals in place.

4. The same way that you presumably believe that the EU would make up for that 4% hit to GDP? The EU doesn't have exclusivity on increasing GDP. Most countries in the world do fine outside of the EU.

5. What I said was absolutely true logically. You've argued against something which I've simply not said.

6. No, we couldn't negotiate our own trade deals as an EU member state.

7. No one ever said brexit was a short term thing. Remainers now want it to be so that they can argue it has failed, another example of remainer dishonesty. 

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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

No wonder the UK government hasn't championed any tangible benefit of Brexit, it hasn't been able to. There is time yet for things to come good but will it happen, who knows. Best not take the risk in the first place.

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On 24/06/2022 at 19:10, Regal Beagle said:

I've seen an article about him using fish fingers as an example, is that what you are on about?

 

2/3. Only if we deal with the EU for the same things which we won't. Again, it's more interesting to see what you've not said there, that at least 58% of exports and 50% of imports could become easier if we get trade deals in place.

4. The same way that you presumably believe that the EU would make up for that 4% hit to GDP? The EU doesn't have exclusivity on increasing GDP. Most countries in the world do fine outside of the EU.

5. What I said was absolutely true logically. You've argued against something which I've simply not said.

6. No, we couldn't negotiate our own trade deals as an EU member state.

7. No one ever said brexit was a short term thing. Remainers now want it to be so that they can argue it has failed, another example of remainer dishonesty. 

So, JRM's latest example of Brexit benefit was we can now change the safety signs inside The Dartford Tunnel, as the warning distances are measured in metres but our road signs are measured in yards. Only, somebody went and checked the EU regulation on this and we could've done it anyway. So there he is, The Brexit brains trust changing an EU rule that doesn't exist.  I'm just waiting for him to bring up bendy bananas.

2/3. The 50% is with one trading block. That's the difference.

4. I don't think you understood. The 4% hit to GDP is from leaving The EU. I think that's about 100 billion in lost revenue. A bit more than the fabled 350 million a week.

5. You wrote, my emphasis in bold

"5. If we no longer have to allow an unlimited amount of unskilled EU workers (NOT TRUE) in we can increase the amount of skilled RoW workers we accept (COULD'VE DONE SO ANYWAY)"

6. Could've set immigration limits anyway.

7. Yes they did, repeatedly. Watch The leave.eu videos, I posted one earlier.  There was also a bus with a slogan on it.

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13 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

So, JRM's latest example of Brexit benefit was we can now change the safety signs inside The Dartford Tunnel, as the warning distances are measured in metres but our road signs are measured in yards. Only, somebody went and checked the EU regulation on this and we could've done it anyway. So there he is, The Brexit brains trust changing an EU rule that doesn't exist.  I'm just waiting for him to bring up bendy bananas.

2/3. The 50% is with one trading block. That's the difference.

4. I don't think you understood. The 4% hit to GDP is from leaving The EU. I think that's about 100 billion in lost revenue. A bit more than the fabled 350 million a week.

5. You wrote, my emphasis in bold

"5. If we no longer have to allow an unlimited amount of unskilled EU workers (NOT TRUE) in we can increase the amount of skilled RoW workers we accept (COULD'VE DONE SO ANYWAY)"

6. Could've set immigration limits anyway.

7. Yes they did, repeatedly. Watch The leave.eu videos, I posted one earlier.  There was also a bus with a slogan on it.

 

5. I can't quite believe what I'm reading here. Are you seriously denying that the free movement of people existed? 

The EU themselves call it the cornerstone of EU citizenship.

 

It's been a long time since I've been shocked by a remainer argument but christ almighty this one has got me.

 

6. We absolutely could not sign our own trade deals. Quite literally not up for debate. If you are being cute and saying it's not a benefit that we can mutually sign agreements with countries over easing of immigration rules because we could have done that anyway, you would be ignoring the added benefit of the trade deal itself, which we absolutely could not have signed. 

 

EUROPEAN-UNION.EUROPA.EU

 

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10 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

5. I can't quite believe what I'm reading here. Are you seriously denying that the free movement of people existed? 

The EU themselves call it the cornerstone of EU citizenship.

 

It's been a long time since I've been shocked by a remainer argument but christ almighty this one has got me.

 

6. We absolutely could not sign our own trade deals. Quite literally not up for debate. If you are being cute and saying it's not a benefit that we can mutually sign agreements with countries over easing of immigration rules because we could have done that anyway, you would be ignoring the added benefit of the trade deal itself, which we absolutely could not have signed. 

 

EUROPEAN-UNION.EUROPA.EU

 

1. If there are provisions to remove people then it's not, as in your words, unlimited.

2. Ok, maybe we can sign some great trade deals, better than ones negotiated by an enormous trading bloc. Give me a nudge when it happens.

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Why would anyone want to rejoin an EU bloc that is helping Russia by importing 61% of fossil fuels since the invasion started?Germany,Italy and the Netherlands were among the largest importers,with only China surpassing them.

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