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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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3 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Well they can’t post about the benefits of Brexit, cos there aren’t any.

Yeah, but they see being able to play out their lack of empathy to refugees as a benefit.  The kind of people that wrote angry letters to the papers about Jews coming over here in the build up to WW2.

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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

The numbers of migrants crossing the channel to the UK has to be reduced significantly  or stopped altogether, these people are making a mockery of the laws of the UK.

The only way to stop it is at source, by declaring some type of migrant no access/go zone for hundreds of miles up and down the Calais/French coastline and 50 miles in land, in effect take away the area from where the migrants can cross the channel safely. 

If the UK was still in the EU then there would be more chance of negotiating such a plan/deal with the French/EU as there was "ca 16.9billion pounds of negotiating power", now out of the EU there is no such thing.

Well done Nigel Farage, bleedin' Master stroke.

The source is not in France but in the wars in progress, and in the famines to come.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

The source is not in France but in the wars in progress, and in the famines to come.

Fosse, The source or the starting point (Call it what you may) for the people that come across the channel and enter the UK illegally is the beaches of France.

There is no war or reports of any famines, present or future, in France that I know of.   

Edited by Paul6754

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Fosse, The source or the starting point (Call it what you may) for the people that come across the channel and enter the UK illegally is the beaches of France.
There is no war or reports of any famines, present or future, in France that I know of.   
Next Saturday hundreds or thousands will come from Stoke on Trent on the train to Euston. Then by tube to Wembley. I don't expect the match commentator to say look at all the Vale fans from Euston. Asylum seekers have a right to enter any civilised country.
.
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On 21/05/2022 at 08:57, philpvfc said:

Your link doesn’t work but what you’re quoting never happened, don’t know of any cases where this happened, the EU are soft on immigration, whether legal or not and no country in Europe wants the migrants, they are happy to move them on.

There are far more settling in Europe than in the UK, if there are jobs let them work and pay taxes as the Germans do.

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17 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

There are far more settling in Europe than in the UK, if there are jobs let them work and pay taxes as the Germans do.

In some countries yes, but we cannot accommodate everyone who wants to come.

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1 minute ago, philpvfc said:

In some countries yes, but we cannot accommodate everyone who wants to come.

Everyone does not want to come, usually people with relatives here or who can speak English. How many Asylum seekers can speak French? Immigrants coming for jobs require visas and are different from people fleeing from danger. 

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2 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Everyone does not want to come, usually people with relatives here or who can speak English. How many Asylum seekers can speak French? Immigrants coming for jobs require visas and are different from people fleeing from danger. 

😂 wow mate 

Have u seen the video of them young men fleeing war as u say it chucking mobile phones into the sea just as the coast guards pick them up 

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11 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

😂 wow mate 

Have u seen the video of them young men fleeing war as u say it chucking mobile phones into the sea just as the coast guards pick them up 

15 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Everyone does not want to come, usually people with relatives here or who can speak English. How many Asylum seekers can speak French? Immigrants coming for jobs require visas and are different from people fleeing from danger. 

We cannot accommodate the amount of people who want to come, a big proportion coming over illegally do not speak English and are not fleeing from an unsafe country, they want to come over here for a better standard of living which in a lot of cases does not happen. We need to stop people entering the country illegally. 

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As has been said before over 64% of asylum applications are granted so to classify everyone as economic migrants looking for a better life is incorrect.

I would also point out that to arrive here and claim asylum is not illegal. So the phrase "illegal immigrants" is inappropriate.

And no, I do not know the answer. I do however get frustrated at politicians/newspapers who (for their own purposes) present simplistic arguments about a subject that is incredibly difficult.

 

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9 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Asylum seekers have a right to enter any civilised country.

Asylum seekers do have a right to enter any country but they only have a right to stay if their claim is granted. Difficulty and cost of removing such large numbers of people means the vast majority of people who come to the UK illegally get to stay.

Refugees are people fleeing armed conflicts or persecution, an asylum seeker is someone who claims to be a refugee but whose claim hasn’t been evaluated. Someone is an asylum seeker for so long as their application is pending. So not every asylum seeker will be recognised as a refugee, but every refugee is initially an asylum seeker.

So a person flees country A for reasons of armed conflict or persecution and enters country B where there is no armed conflict or persecution, but said person wants to go to country C. How is that person now a refugee because they have already reached a safe country, they are not fleeing country B because of armed conflict or persecution because there isn't any.

Your view is very virtuous towards the people coming across the channel but shows no interest or concern in the well being and welfare of the people already in the UK. If people wish to come to the UK to live they should do so by legal routes and means.

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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

Asylum seekers do have a right to enter any country but they only have a right to stay if their claim is granted. Difficulty and cost of removing such large numbers of people means the vast majority of people who come to the UK illegally get to stay.

Refugees are people fleeing armed conflicts or persecution, an asylum seeker is someone who claims to be a refugee but whose claim hasn’t been evaluated. Someone is an asylum seeker for so long as their application is pending. So not every asylum seeker will be recognised as a refugee, but every refugee is initially an asylum seeker.

So a person flees country A for reasons of armed conflict or persecution and enters country B where there is no armed conflict or persecution, but said person wants to go to country C. How is that person now a refugee because they have already reached a safe country, they are not fleeing country B because of armed conflict or persecution because there isn't any.

Your view is very virtuous towards the people coming across the channel but shows no interest or concern in the well being and welfare of the people already in the UK. If people wish to come to the UK to live they should do so by legal routes and means.

How about the people in the countries closest to the wars? Should not their welfare be considered and the exodus be spread? Where would you go if you were in their position? During the war my family was offered safety with relatives in Canada, English speaking. We did not go but the offer was made.

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23 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

How about the people in the countries closest to the wars? Should not their welfare be considered and the exodus be spread? Where would you go if you were in their position? During the war my family was offered safety with relatives in Canada, English speaking. We did not go but the offer was made.

Safe countries closet to the war zone is usually where most refugees flee to and this gives the best opportunity to return to their original country when safe and if they wish to. If the closest countries can't cope with the numbers then other countries step in as is happening with Poland/Ukraine at the moment.

I certainly wouldn't flee, it's not in my character but I do understand these people are in a very difficult situation.  During the two world wars members of my family stood and fought, one died (MIA) aged 18 in a Lancaster bomber lost over the North Sea, one in 3 Para dropped at D-Day, The Battle of the Bulge and the other side the Rhine on the push to Berlin. One enlisted when he was 16 in the paratroops and others were too young but went to Germany after the war ended.

Fosse one aspect of emmigration that is often not considered is that many of the smaller countries are losing a large percentage of their younger people, in effect the future of their country. As the Leader of El Salvador said on US tv recently, "El Salvador doesn't want to lose it's young people, who is going to build and grow our country etc". Apparently something like 25% of people born in El Salvador now reside in the USA.  So there are 2 sides to this equation.

I'm a legal immigrant into the USA, I would have preferred to stay in the UK but chose the more difficult option to move. It is not easy moving to another country even when you get as much help as we did, not even one that speaks a similar language.

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Safe countries closet to the war zone is usually where most refugees flee to and this gives the best opportunity to return to their original country when safe and if they wish to. If the closest countries can't cope with the numbers then other countries step in as is happening with Poland/Ukraine at the moment.
I certainly wouldn't flee, it's not in my character but I do understand these people are in a very difficult situation.  During the two world wars members of my family stood and fought, one died (MIA) aged 18 in a Lancaster bomber lost over the North Sea, one in 3 Para dropped at D-Day, The Battle of the Bulge and the other side the Rhine on the push to Berlin. One enlisted when he was 16 in the paratroops and others were too young but went to Germany after the war ended.
Fosse one aspect of emmigration that is often not considered is that many of the smaller countries are losing a large percentage of their younger people, in effect the future of their country. As the Leader of El Salvador said on US tv recently, "El Salvador doesn't want to lose it's young people, who is going to build and grow our country etc". Apparently something like 25% of people born in El Salvador now reside in the USA.  So there are 2 sides to this equation.
I'm a legal immigrant into the USA, I would have preferred to stay in the UK but chose the more difficult option to move. It is not easy moving to another country even when you get as much help as we did, not even one that speaks a similar language.
Of course it is not easy that is why having relatives and speaking the language is a major factor. As for economic migrants the receiving country has avoided education and training costs often to the detriment of a poorer country.


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8 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Of course it is not easy that is why having relatives and speaking the language is a major factor.

These alone are not reason to be granted asylum in a country as far as I know. 

 

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