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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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2 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Probably safer in Rwanda than in the middle of a big shipping lane in freezing choppy waters having just given huge sums of money to a load of gangsters.

 

Probably safer in UK than in Rwanda

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, For Us All said:

No need to,they aren't coming here illegally through criminal traffickers.

Should we fastrack their claims for asylum then to avoid these illegal movements?

Either way do you think it's right we are letting Ukrainians in when we are treating other refugees differently? Both fleeing terrible things. Also thought we need to be cutting down on immigration? 

Edited by ginge

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22 minutes ago, ginge said:

Ah but there is a fast track system for Ukrainian refugees albeit not perfect, if there was a fasttrack system for everyone maybe it would enable a safer route for genuine asylum seekers. Secondly the policy puts people through the asylum process but i imagine only recognised refugees will to be sent to stay permanently in Rwanda. Why can't the recognised refugees stay here like the Ukrainian refugees? What about those who fail the asylum process for Rwanda? 

Asylum is only a temporary state,  only for as long as the threat to the person exists, all we are doing is dumping people in a country with a suspect reputation. With the current skills shortage surely sensible to employ suitable seekers.

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2 hours ago, ginge said:

Should we fastrack their claims for asylum then to avoid these illegal movements?

Either way do you think it's right we are letting Ukrainians in when we are treating other refugees differently? Both fleeing terrible things. Also thought we need to be cutting down on immigration? 

I'll ask again, how many Ukrainians have entered the UK illegally and applied for asylum?

 

The Rwanda deal targets suspected economic migrants and those who travel here illegally and claim asylum. It does not target genuine lawful asylum seekers who enter the UK via safe travel methods. That's the difference between Ukraine refugees fleeing a war and people who gleefully drop their passports into the channel as they flee war torn France.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Rodriguez said:

I appreciate that and that a humanitarian issue has been made in to a political issue. What I find surprising is that this fact is not publicised more by the "other side".

Can you explain any reasoning for why people come here illegally then?

 

Genuine question.

 

If the chance of claiming asylum in the UK is so great then why would they risk their lives getting here first? It doesn't make any sense to me.

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35 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Can you explain any reasoning for why people come here illegally then?

 

Genuine question.

 

If the chance of claiming asylum in the UK is so great then why would they risk their lives getting here first? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I think (I am no expert) that they have to physically be in this country to claim asylum.  

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9 minutes ago, Tony Rodriguez said:

I think (I am no expert) that they have to physically be in this country to claim asylum.  

Seeking asylum in a country is not illegal nor does it need a visa. If you are in danger you move away as fast as you can.

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55 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I'll ask again, how many Ukrainians have entered the UK illegally and applied for asylum?

 

The Rwanda deal targets suspected economic migrants and those who travel here illegally and claim asylum. It does not target genuine lawful asylum seekers who enter the UK via safe travel methods. That's the difference between Ukraine refugees fleeing a war and people who gleefully drop their passports into the channel as they flee war torn France.

 

 

I do not know that answer what does it matter? As i have said the Ukrainians have a fast track system here whereas others applications take an awful long time. Ukrainians also have other safe places they can take refuge such as Poland so why do some people on here think it's fine for them to come to the UK but not these other refugees?

Please have a read of this link. Many of the people in boats are fleeing persecution and there are limited safe routes.

REFUGEECOUNCIL.ORG.UK

 

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12 hours ago, ginge said:

Apparently it costs about 30 grand per asylum seeker. What about when they get to Rwanda but gain asylum? I believe the policy is to then keep them in Rwanda. Let's be clear this policy is for asylum seekers not illegal immigrants. 

Apparently today the numbers are going up! Is the plan working? 

Has the plan come in to place yet?.  Is the 30K cost if they stay in the U.K. or if they are sent to Rwanda. Isn’t the whole idea to reduce the amount coming over rather than a cost saving exercise. What is the difference with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants?

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11 hours ago, ginge said:

Another question I'd ask to @philpvfc (if you do support this Rwanda policy) or anyone who does support it, I would be interested to know what you think of Ukrainian refugees coming into this country. Should we also send them to Rwanda?

I don’t think the Rwanda policy is ideal, far from it but at least it is a safe country which is a reason (supposedly) why refugees are escaping where they have come from. The EU won’t allow the refugees to be sent back from the last safe country they came from so at least we are trying to come up with some solution, all those moaning about it aren’t coming up with anything better. And answer to your second question, if any Ukrainians try to enter the country illegally, they shouldn’t be treated any differently.

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15 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

There's nothing like a bit of personal abuse to show what a virtuous lefty you are.

Don’t worry, I’m not a snowflake like Nobsworth. 

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5 hours ago, Tony Rodriguez said:

I think (I am no expert) that they have to physically be in this country to claim asylum.  

Wrong, they can claim asylum where ever they want….should be first safe country they enter. If they claim asylum in another country they can then put a claim in to enter and stay in the U.K. as have many who are based in camps outside the Syrian border. That is the legal way to do things.

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6 hours ago, philpvfc said:

I don’t think the Rwanda policy is ideal, far from it but at least it is a safe country which is a reason (supposedly) why refugees are escaping where they have come from. The EU won’t allow the refugees to be sent back from the last safe country they came from so at least we are trying to come up with some solution, all those moaning about it aren’t coming up with anything better. And answer to your second question, if any Ukrainians try to enter the country illegally, they shouldn’t be treated any differently.

But isn't the UK a safer country than Rwanda? But they are being treated differently they have a fast track system in place for Ukrainians. 

I can agree that those moaning have no solution. Doesn't make this a good idea though. There needs to be some hard cross party thought on this and an idea to solve the actual root of the problem as this policy aims to tackle an after-effect of the problem and probably will not even do that well, but at a cost. 

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7 hours ago, philpvfc said:

The EU won’t allow the refugees to be sent back from the last safe country they came from so at least we are trying to come up with some solution, all those moaning about it aren’t coming up with anything better. And answer to your second question, if any Ukrainians try to enter the country illegally, they shouldn’t be treated any differently.

Another words the EU say keep going straight through our country’s and get to Britain where we will make sure they look after u 

 

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Anyone who throws there ID into the ocean once they leave France are taking the piss the don’t want us to know where there from I wonder why?? 
Be interesting to see how many of the ILLEGALS are now working and paying taxis (fair enough if they are) or still claiming benefits and getting all the benefits of our country like we do

 

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1 hour ago, ginge said:

But isn't the UK a safer country than Rwanda? But they are being treated differently they have a fast track system in place for Ukrainians. 

I can agree that those moaning have no solution. Doesn't make this a good idea though. There needs to be some hard cross party thought on this and an idea to solve the actual root of the problem as this policy aims to tackle an after-effect of the problem and probably will not even do that well, but at a cost. 

Really don’t know if Rwanda or the U.K. is a safer place but asylum seekers are seeking refuge away from the country they have left which is deemed as unsafe and both the U.K. and Rwanda are deemed as safe countries, so both suit the job. If they want to come to the U.K. and don’t want to run the risk of being sent to Rwanda they should do it legally. They aren’t being treated any different than the Ukrainians as the scheme is for those who come illegally via the channel or other illegal methods plus we had a fast track system recently for those leaving Afghanistan.

We have had years to come up with a solution and have got nowhere, the EU have come up with nothing as well, if this is the best that can be come up with for now then it is better than nothing, we cannot keep on as is. There does need a lot quicker process and preference should be those who go through the process legally, those who don’t should be at the back of the queue and go against their application.

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44 minutes ago, Packmoor_vale said:

Anyone who throws there ID into the ocean once they leave France are taking the piss the don’t want us to know where there from I wonder why?? 
Be interesting to see how many of the ILLEGALS are now working and paying taxis (fair enough if they are) or still claiming benefits and getting all the benefits of our country like we do

 

It costs hundreds of thousands to keep them while the process is going through, loads of hotels down here have been fully converted to foreigners and more are going to be converted, they make more money from charging the Government than paying guests plus they are guaranteed to be full for a long time. And is just for those that don’t just slip off.

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13 hours ago, ginge said:

I do not know that answer what does it matter? As i have said the Ukrainians have a fast track system here whereas others applications take an awful long time. Ukrainians also have other safe places they can take refuge such as Poland so why do some people on here think it's fine for them to come to the UK but not these other refugees?

Please have a read of this link. Many of the people in boats are fleeing persecution and there are limited safe routes.

REFUGEECOUNCIL.ORG.UK

 

I suspect Ukrainians aren't entering the country illegally and so that's why they would not be part of the Rwanda thing. 

 

The link still doesn't explain why someone would risk their life trying to flee France. 

Nor does it actually say that there are no safe routes into the UK, it concludes that based us not taking any Kuwaiti or Vietnamese refugees.

 

It seems like a desperate attempt to conflate refugees and economic migrants to me. 

 

That's the only thing that really explains the outrage over Rwanda too. On one hand we're being told that these people are simply trying to reach safety (via numerous EU states no less) yet on the other hand processing them offshore is also not acceptable? If they're safe in Rwanda then what is the problem?

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