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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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On 12/04/2022 at 19:28, hillmanhunter said:

I stand corrected 

Depends how you do the measuring? By size of population, number of countries involved, or just pure numbers (in $ presumably?) makes for different answers!

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On 12/04/2022 at 19:39, hillmanhunter said:

Not often I see a straw man wrapped on a false dichotomy. Well done. I’ll dismantle it later.

You wrote:

"Just a quick edit to note that I know you understand, that's why you are deliberately misunderstanding what sovereignty is. Because you can't logically hold both views (that sovereignty is a) desireable and b) genuinely achievable) and support being a member of the EU. 

 

So you are left with 2 choices - either say that sovereignty is not desireable, or to try and demonstrate that we can't possibly have sovereignty outside of the EU either. Neither is true."

 

No, you can do that. You can understand how the world works and know that complete sovereignty is not possible when you sign up to any international agreement, such as  a trade deal. You can have enough sovereignty plus the advantages of being a member of something like The EU. This is what we had before we left. I was quite happy with the balance.

My question to you:

Do you agree that the recent UK-US trade deal on some grades of steel mean we've lost some sovereignty?

A simple yes or no will do.

We're into fantasy land if we're comparing auditing a steel company to quite literally signing away ultimate law making power and control of your borders to a foreign Government.

 

I can't possibly answer the question without knowing what sort of power we have to exit the Steel trade deal with the US. 

 

You actually believe that transferring the ultimate authority for law making and the power to control your own borders to a foreign Government is "enough sovereignty"? because that seems incredibly dishonest to me.

 

Why can't you just admit that we did not have sovereignty in the EU but that you are okay with that? Why do we have to play this game of definitions and pretend?

 

You seem to be simultaneously arguing that we don't have sovereignty now but did have enough sovereignty in the EU even though surely anyone would agree that we have MORE now?

 

And you laugh at me for failing to understand your points?

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6 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

We're into fantasy land if we're comparing auditing a steel company to quite literally signing away ultimate law making power and control of your borders to a foreign Government.

 

I can't possibly answer the question without knowing what sort of power we have to exit the Steel trade deal with the US. 

 

You actually believe that transferring the ultimate authority for law making and the power to control your own borders to a foreign Government is "enough sovereignty"? because that seems incredibly dishonest to me.

 

Why can't you just admit that we did not have sovereignty in the EU but that you are okay with that? Why do we have to play this game of definitions and pretend?

 

You seem to be simultaneously arguing that we don't have sovereignty now but did have enough sovereignty in the EU even though surely anyone would agree that we have MORE now?

 

And you laugh at me for failing to understand your points?

Yeah, yeah. Whatever.

How'd you like these apples? Just give me a shout when the penny finally drops.

 

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2 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

We're into fantasy land if we're comparing auditing a steel company to quite literally signing away ultimate law making power and control of your borders to a foreign Government.

 

I can't possibly answer the question without knowing what sort of power we have to exit the Steel trade deal with the US. 

 

You actually believe that transferring the ultimate authority for law making and the power to control your own borders to a foreign Government is "enough sovereignty"? because that seems incredibly dishonest to me.

 

Why can't you just admit that we did not have sovereignty in the EU but that you are okay with that? Why do we have to play this game of definitions and pretend?

 

You seem to be simultaneously arguing that we don't have sovereignty now but did have enough sovereignty in the EU even though surely anyone would agree that we have MORE now?

 

And you laugh at me for failing to understand your points?

You are laughed at for many reasons 😂

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Brexit not being brilliant latest.

 

"

All of Boris Johnson’s new post-Brexit trade deals put together will have an economic benefit of just £3 to £7 per person over the next 15 years, according to the government’s own figures.

The tiny economic boost – amounting to just 0.01 to 0.02 per cent of GDP, and less than 50p per person a year – is dwarfed by the economic hit from leaving the EU, which the government estimates at 4 per cent of GDP over the same period."

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On 26/04/2022 at 08:22, hillmanhunter said:

Brexit not being brilliant latest.

 

"

All of Boris Johnson’s new post-Brexit trade deals put together will have an economic benefit of just £3 to £7 per person over the next 15 years, according to the government’s own figures.

The tiny economic boost – amounting to just 0.01 to 0.02 per cent of GDP, and less than 50p per person a year – is dwarfed by the economic hit from leaving the EU, which the government estimates at 4 per cent of GDP over the same period."

November 2021? 

 

 

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On 26/04/2022 at 08:22, hillmanhunter said:

Brexit not being brilliant latest.

 

"

All of Boris Johnson’s new post-Brexit trade deals put together will have an economic benefit of just £3 to £7 per person over the next 15 years, according to the government’s own figures.

The tiny economic boost – amounting to just 0.01 to 0.02 per cent of GDP, and less than 50p per person a year – is dwarfed by the economic hit from leaving the EU, which the government estimates at 4 per cent of GDP over the same period."

Brexit the gift that keeps on giving!!

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12 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

Yes. 

Here's Jacob Rees-Mogg claiming today that implementing the Brexit deal he voted for would be an 'act of self-harm'. Maybe he didn't know what he voted for?

https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1519691770736558081?s=20&t=1ucfQW8v8ZjVzexZuvn_yQ

And they've delayed it?

 

Again, is this an issue with brexit or with the current Government? You lot seem to conflate the two quite a lot.

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