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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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Posted (edited)
On 09/04/2022 at 11:05, Osh said:

Jesus Christ man.  Yiu don't seem to realise that the EU are our next door neighbours and it's easier and cheaper to ship to them. Further, in the past, we have <ovf censored> over the vast majority of the other countries around the world that YOU and Truss think we can trade with; we've invaded their countries and tapped and pillaged our way through their lives. 

In addition the "Trade Deals" that Truss thinks she's making our nowhere near as good as the ones we had via the EU. 

So, since we left the EU it is a fact that our exports have dropped, that it's got more expensive and that the paperwork has gone nuts - and that that paperwork to export has been mainly bought in by this government. 

How stupid is that. 

 

This is getting quite desperate now.

 

First of all. You can't cite "being able to trade with other countries" as a benefit that the EU has but then not accept it as a benefit that we also have. Especially given that we have more freedom to do it than they do.

 

Second of all, the whole "omg the empire was evil how will anyone trade with us" is just garbage mud slinging isn't it? Why wouldn't they trade with us? They've traded with us throughout history. We're supposed to believe that they'll trade with us if we're under the EU banner but absolutely not otherwise....rubbish again isn't it? 🤣

 

Again, the geographic point you make...which is the first valid one you've come up with incidentally, also applies to the EU though. So it's cheaper for them to trade with us because of geographical proximity and it's cheaper for us to trade with them. It's mutually beneficial. You seem to imply as with the rest of your points that geographic proximity only applies one way...to the eu?

 

And the rest is just more garbage remainer assertions. Whether we have a better or worse trade deal is neither here or nor there. We are working on trade deals now that we could not have had whilst in being in the EU and so they are definitionally better. Furthermore, we don't have accept terms which don't suit us because of pressure, vetoes or being outvoted by a group of 27 other countries. 

 

Until you accept that there are benefits of brexit, as there are disadvantages, then we can't have a sensible conversation. It will constantly be this silly playground level nonsense like "they can demand our sovereignty because of a legal framework or something even though it's the same with us but because i say legal framework it makes it sound like they're in charge".

 

What you are saying is meaningless. They will trade with us if the terms are acceptable. We will trade with them if the terms are acceptable. 

 

I truly do not understand the ideological desperation to be an EU member state. Baffling.

 

Edited by Regal Beagle

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2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

enjoy the Sovereignty, cause there ain’t much else

 

Imagine sneering about sOvErEigNtY like this?

 

If you take 1 second to think about what Tommy is actually saying...."Enjoy the supreme power, cause there ain't much else"

 

No, there isn't anything else, that's the whole point Tommy, supreme power as in no one is more powerful.

 

Maybe it's time for remainers to actually start explaining why they don't want sovereignty?

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1 hour ago, tommytunstall said:

Compared to Johnson’s principles, let’s grab, let’s kid the electorate, no sleaze to small, let’s not tell the truth, stuff the country and the pandemic let’s have some booze ups.  Think the EU is not too bad.

Not too bad.

The EU are funding Putin's war.

 

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18 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Not too bad.

The EU are funding Putin's war.

 

You must be really mad at The UK for providing arms to Saudi Arabia for use against the civilian population of Yemen.

The EU have voted to end sales to The Saudis. If only we were still a member, eh?

https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/uk-arms-used-in-the-war-on-yemen/

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

Imagine sneering about sOvErEigNtY like this?

 

If you take 1 second to think about what Tommy is actually saying...."Enjoy the supreme power, cause there ain't much else"

 

No, there isn't anything else, that's the whole point Tommy, supreme power as in no one is more powerful.

 

Maybe it's time for remainers to actually start explaining why they don't want sovereignty?

We already had it. 

And now we have this.

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/

Edited by hillmanhunter

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39 minutes ago, hillmanhunter said:

You must be really mad at The UK for providing arms to Saudi Arabia for use against the civilian population of Yemen.

The EU have voted to end sales to The Saudis. If only we were still a member, eh?

https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/uk-arms-used-in-the-war-on-yemen/

When are the EU going to stop funding Putin's war?

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1 hour ago, hillmanhunter said:

You must be really mad at The UK for providing arms to Saudi Arabia for use against the civilian population of Yemen.

The EU have voted to end sales to The Saudis. If only we were still a member, eh?

https://caat.org.uk/homepage/stop-arming-saudi-arabia/uk-arms-used-in-the-war-on-yemen/

They may have voted for it but which countries abstained?

I don't think France got the message.

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8 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

Your first figure is from 2015 - the worst year for UK exports for about a decade - nice choice.

Here's a quote from your second link.

"UK-EU trade fell sharply between Q4 2020 and Q1 2021, following the end of the Brexit transition period and the additional disruptions this caused to UKEU trade. UK exports to the EU fell by 18% between Q4 2020 and Q1 2021, with imports from the EU falling by 25% over the same period. This fall is more pronounced when looking at monthly data - the value of UK goods exported to the EU fell by 45% between December 2020 and January 2021, while the value of goods imported from the EU fell 34%. Trade with the EU represented 42% of the UK’s total trade in goods (i.e., the combined value of exports and imports) in January 2021, the EU’s lowest monthly share of UK trade since comparable records began in"

 

Took 2015 randomly but either way, exports were up despite a Covid hit year. First quarter of 2021 we were in a lockdown so bound to be well down but yes, the first quarter Brexit will have affected trade, always was going to while we adjusted. We will have a better picture when we see the final trade figures for 2022, the Ukraine war will effect figures slightly but as long as we are covid free then it is fairer to compare this year to a historic year. 

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14 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Took 2015 randomly but either way, exports were up despite a Covid hit year. First quarter of 2021 we were in a lockdown so bound to be well down but yes, the first quarter Brexit will have affected trade, always was going to while we adjusted. We will have a better picture when we see the final trade figures for 2022, the Ukraine war will effect figures slightly but as long as we are covid free then it is fairer to compare this year to a historic year. 

Not sure what you mean by 'adjusted'. The new paperwork will stay until we change our trading agreement. That would probably have the 'Brexit means Brexit' mob frothing at the mouth again.

Happy to wait and see, but the figures for 2022 are already bad.

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15 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Just shows how bad the EU are to trade with if not a member…..look how much trade we possibly missed out from none Eu countries.

They're the largest trading bloc in the world and will look after their own. Was always obvious, unless you bought the 'they need us more than we need them' line.

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27 minutes ago, hillmanhunter said:

They're the largest trading bloc in the world and will look after their own. Was always obvious, unless you bought the 'they need us more than we need them' line.

Absolutely spot-on.  Our exports to the EU are something like 25% less than they were before Brexit and that large gap certainly hasn't been anything like filled by exports to other markets. The pandemic has to a degree masked the affects from Brexit, but as you say, the EU is the largest single trading block in the world and it was always going to cause self-inflicted economic pain by withdrawing from it.

However, we can't re-run the Brexit debate and we are where we are.  We need to work harder at replacing that lost EU trade, but that will take years not months to achieve!

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20 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You are like a gramophone record. It’s either Blair, Starmer or the EU.

But sadly, For us All is correct--the continuing importing of gas & oil to the EU from Russia is filling Putin's war chest.  Germany's (or should I say Merkel's) courting of Putin and ill-judged gas pipeline project has made them and large parts of the EU susceptible to Putin's whims!

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