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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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This has been happening far longer than our exit from the EU. Maybe more highlighted recently, maybe for political gain I don’t know. Who said anything for Covid being the cause? Global warming maybe as a big cause is the overflow system meaning the system cannot cope when there is too much rain.
Building on flood plains does not help.

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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:
4 hours ago, philpvfc said:
This has been happening far longer than our exit from the EU. Maybe more highlighted recently, maybe for political gain I don’t know. Who said anything for Covid being the cause? Global warming maybe as a big cause is the overflow system meaning the system cannot cope when there is too much rain.

Building on flood plains does not help.

True but the biggest problem is that most of our sewerage system was built in the Victorian era

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16 hours ago, philpvfc said:

The laws were too lenient when we were in the EU and they still are so does not say anything at all for the EU. I will wait on judgement as the Government have said they are introducing their own rules soon. I agree, the water companies need to be held responsible and something has to be done but this has happened for decades and do so in other EU countries but the EU have not stepped in, hopefully with the new rules this will be stopped, we will wait and see but if the new rules don’t then it does not look good on Boris’s environmental promises and we have a choice at the next election just like we did when we had a referendum.

Yes but we dont have a true choice in the next election because our voting system is very very very undemocratic. Until we have some form of proportional representation we don't have a proper choice and we do not live in a democracy. 

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6 hours ago, ginge said:

Yes but we dont have a true choice in the next election because our voting system is very very very undemocratic. Until we have some form of proportional representation we don't have a proper choice and we do not live in a democracy. 

Can't agree with this at all. 

In any case, wernt we given a vote on this or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I thought Cameron had to give the electorate the choice as a condition of the pact with the lib Democrats,  and it was overwhelmingly rejected?

Interestingly, at that 2010 election,  the conservatives had the most mp's but not an overall majority.  Labour attempted to form an alliance with the lib dems to cling on to power.  That would have been undemocratic!!

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The issue I am on about is not old sewerage systems or building on flood plains or global warming, it is the pure act of dumping raw sewage into the seas. Why do it, other than not being able to source the chemicals
Coastal towns always dumped into the sea, it was the simple cheap way. Inland towns had to process it at a cost. Dumping into rivers is a bigger problem. Nothing to stop us, apart from profits, of having higher standards than the EU minimum.

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Can't agree with this at all. 
In any case, wernt we given a vote on this or is my memory playing tricks on me?
I thought Cameron had to give the electorate the choice as a condition of the pact with the lib Democrats,  and it was overwhelmingly rejected?
Interestingly, at that 2010 election,  the conservatives had the most mp's but not an overall majority.  Labour attempted to form an alliance with the lib dems to cling on to power.  That would have been undemocratic!!
Not a referendum on PR, and unlike Brexit not advisory.

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9 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:
22 minutes ago, Loggerheads Sage said:
Can't agree with this at all. 
In any case, wernt we given a vote on this or is my memory playing tricks on me?
I thought Cameron had to give the electorate the choice as a condition of the pact with the lib Democrats,  and it was overwhelmingly rejected?
Interestingly, at that 2010 election,  the conservatives had the most mp's but not an overall majority.  Labour attempted to form an alliance with the lib dems to cling on to power.  That would have been undemocratic!!

Not a referendum on PR, and unlike Brexit not advisory.

I didn't say it was a referendum? I said we had the chance to change to a pr system if that's what the majority of people wanted. The public did not make that change. 

Not sure why you bought Brexit in to your reply? I was replying to a quote saying that we don't live in a democracy because we don't have pr. Pointing out that we have chosen not to go down that route. 

The advisory point is interesting. It was not generally thought of as only being advisory before the referendum.  I remember receiving,  as everyone did, a letter off Cameron saying hm govt would enact whatever the people chose,  ie.  Leave or remain. 

He quit the next day!!

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8 hours ago, ginge said:

Yes but we dont have a true choice in the next election because our voting system is very very very undemocratic. Until we have some form of proportional representation we don't have a proper choice and we do not live in a democracy. 

As you keep saying, not that your system would make any difference anyway. And as I keep saying, we do have a democratic system, far more democratic than the EU system, the problem is we don’t have an opposition party to threaten the Conservatives.

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1 hour ago, Loggerheads Sage said:

I didn't say it was a referendum? I said we had the chance to change to a pr system if that's what the majority of people wanted. The public did not make that change. 

Not sure why you bought Brexit in to your reply? I was replying to a quote saying that we don't live in a democracy because we don't have pr. Pointing out that we have chosen not to go down that route. 

The advisory point is interesting. It was not generally thought of as only being advisory before the referendum.  I remember receiving,  as everyone did, a letter off Cameron saying hm govt would enact whatever the people chose,  ie.  Leave or remain. 

He quit the next day!!

The Government did have the choice to not honour the referendum result but that would be seen to be more undemocratic and there would be a bigger divide than there is now. The truth is the result went against what 48% of the population voted for and a certain percentage of those cannot and will not accept the result.

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I didn't say it was a referendum? I said we had the chance to change to a pr system if that's what the majority of people wanted. The public did not make that change. 
Not sure why you bought Brexit in to your reply? I was replying to a quote saying that we don't live in a democracy because we don't have pr. Pointing out that we have chosen not to go down that route. 
The advisory point is interesting. It was not generally thought of as only being advisory before the referendum.  I remember receiving,  as everyone did, a letter off Cameron saying hm govt would enact whatever the people chose,  ie.  Leave or remain. 
He quit the next day!!
Not thought of except quoted in the reading of the bill in Parliament, that was where the conn started. There was a referendum on a voting method. Another conn.

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48 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

The Government did have the choice to not honour the referendum result but that would be seen to be more undemocratic and there would be a bigger divide than there is now. The truth is the result went against what 48% of the population voted for and a certain percentage of those cannot and will not accept the result.

I think the problem is a lot of people who voted leave feel conned and I include myself in that bojo and his mate lied to voters and I’m embarrassed to say I fell for it and I know we can’t have another vote but if we did I’m sure we would vote to remain 

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On 19/10/2021 at 17:31, Fosse69 said:

Not of their own accord. 

According to the Telegraph,a senior member of the ruling party has said that Poland could adopt "a dirty remainer" strategy to bring the EU's policy machine to a grinding halt in retaliation for any move to punish Warsaw?

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3 minutes ago, For Us All said:

According to the Telegraph,a senior member of the ruling party has said that Poland could adopt "a dirty remainer" strategy to bring the EU's policy machine to a grinding halt in retaliation for any move to punish Warsaw?

Up to the people to rid themselves of tyrants 

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1 hour ago, Coyney Valiant said:

I think the problem is a lot of people who voted leave feel conned and I include myself in that bojo and his mate lied to voters and I’m embarrassed to say I fell for it and I know we can’t have another vote but if we did I’m sure we would vote to remain 

Well said that man, they lied then, and they are still lying now 

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