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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


Aussie Rules
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24 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Absolute tosh.

Why even try and lie about something that's so easily disprovable?

 

The Vote leave take control org released their reasons to leave.

1. Save £350m a week to spend elsewhere (economics)

2. In charge of our own boarders

3. Free to Trade with the world leading to new opportunities and new jobs (economics)

4. We can make our own laws.

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html

So you are in fact... wrong.

Nah sorry, I'm right as per:

 

Quote

 

Prior to the referendum, a sample of 1,517 people were asked by BMG Research polling's team as to whether they believed that David Cameron's renegotiated deal with the EU will give more sovereignty to the British Parliament; of which 44% of people said no, and 26% of people said yes. [3] This shows that the British people still had contentious feelings towards the British parliament's supposed lack of sovereignty in relation to the European Union prior to the referendum.

On the day of the referendum Lord Ashcroft's polling team questioned 12,369 people who had completed voting.[4] This poll produced data that showed that 'Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the European Union was "the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK". ("in the UK." meaning: "by the UK." logically implying: "on behalf of 66 million UK citizens not 508 million EU residents.") The sense that EU membership took decision making further away from 'the people' in favour of domination by regulatory bodies – in particular the European Commission, seen as the supposed key decision-taking body, is said to have been a strong motivating factor for leave voters wanting to end or reverse the process of EU influence in the UK.[5] Immediately prior to the vote, Ipsos MORI data showed that the European Union was the third most highly ranked problem by Britons who were asked to name the most important issues facing the country, with 32% of respondents naming it as an issue.[6]

Two years later, in December 2018, pollsters from Survation asked 1,030 people whether they approved or disapproved with the Brexit deal negotiated by EU leaders and the British government in relation to sovereignty. 35% of participants approved while 24% of participants didn't, leaving 41% either neutral or didn't know.[7] This suggests that the majority of people either didn't have an opinion on the issue, or could be fed up with the Brexit process dragging on.

However, Pollsters from 'UK in a Changing Europe', which conducts independent and authoritative polls for UK-EU relations, conducted a poll in July 2018 which surveyed over 7,000 participants showing the differences between Conservative and Labour's Remain and Leave forces within the party. Leave voters, for the most part, regarded control of British laws and regulations as the most important factor in the next 5 years, with the ability to strike trade deals independently as the second most important factor. Leave voters would prioritise control and trade over immigration by 67% to 33%, and 59% to 41% respectively. They also preferred control and trade over strong economic growth by 69% to 31% and 61% to 39% respectively.[8] Yet in the same poll, Remain voters strongly favoured economic growth over immigration, control and trade deals by margins of 77% vs 23%, 79% vs 21% as well as 84% vs 16% respectively. Such large margins here comparatively to Leave voters slimmer favour of control and trade, and in relation to how close the referendum result was, shows that actually there is no overall majority for a Hard Brexit and that economic growth is the most important to all voters.

 

I thought this was quite widely accepted to be honest.

 

I did see a yougov poll a while ago that asked people why they thought the other side voted as they did, and remainers clearly said immigration was the main reason which is at odds with most of the polls, but then again immigration indirectly ties in with sovereignty i suppose.

 

We were told of the economic threats, we voted for brexit anyway. I'm not sure why you think finding the smallest little economic downturn evidence will suddenly prove that we should have remained. It's a fact to say that we voted for brexit primarily for non economic reasons. So you really should focus there if you want to show us all how silly we are or how duped or racist we've been.

 

 

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I was under the impression we had the ability to control our borders before Brexit because we were never part of the Schengen area.  Also, numerous governments, both Tory and Labour, made little or no effort to implement control in an efficient manner.  Indeed, Tony Blair's government had the opportunity to implement the so-called transitional controls when a number of Eastern European countries joined the EU.  The UK, Ireland and Sweden were the only countries not to impose these and thus, there was a huge increase in immigration from these new member countries because they had nowhere else to go.  What did Cameron's government do to control immigration from non EU countries, which was greater than from the EU.  Bugger all.

There was really no need to Brexit to control numbers coming into this country.  There was just a need for a government of any colour to get their act together and do it. 

And the sovereignty argument continues to be rubbish.  A considerable number of those who voted to leave couldn't bloody spell it let alone understand what it meant in practice.

Edited by Jacko51

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1 hour ago, Iron Curtain said:

There is a blatant lie in that document "Turkey is one of FIVE new countries joining the EU".  It was not true then and it isn't true now. None of the other four countries in the list have become members either.  That was blatant, dishonest scaremongering.  But don't forget, the Vote Leavers never lied.

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29 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Nah sorry, I'm right as per:

 

I thought this was quite widely accepted to be honest.

 

I did see a yougov poll a while ago that asked people why they thought the other side voted as they did, and remainers clearly said immigration was the main reason which is at odds with most of the polls, but then again immigration indirectly ties in with sovereignty i suppose.

 

We were told of the economic threats, we voted for brexit anyway. I'm not sure why you think finding the smallest little economic downturn evidence will suddenly prove that we should have remained. It's a fact to say that we voted for brexit primarily for non economic reasons. So you really should focus there if you want to show us all how silly we are or how duped or racist we've been.

 

 

None of the above says that economics wasnt a reason suggested for Brexit... Quite clearly it represented 50% of the manifesto as shown by the voteleave.org reasons to vote Brexit. 

Therefore your attempt to shut it down because its not looking good on the outcome is trying to wash history to suit your argument.

People were told that there would be economic benefit... that's a fact.

Warnings around economic downturn were played off as project Fear... they were belittled, and its was made to look like soverignty could be obtained without any risk. 

 Unfortunately project fear is turning into fear reality.

The above simply shows what peoples preferences were out of a list of things that they were all told would all be true... It doesnt factor in peoples thoughts on sovereignty if they had been made aware of what they were risking to achieve it.

The above also states that there was only a 7% difference in the preference between Soverignty and Trade... so hardly a huge gap. So in fact, pointing out the vast number of issues that are being faced by companies in trading is quite important.

And that's before we dig into the fact that the vast vast vaaaaaaast majority of people have failed to once tell me how improved sovereignty is going to improve their lives. Until people can start putting forward examples of how soverignty has changed things for them, its not possible to point out how they are wrong.

So until then, its been easier to point how their second favourite reason proved not to be reality.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Such a lot of lies going on 😂

 

Just a reminder that we voted to leave, overwhelmingly for sovereignty. We wanted our Government to have the power to propose laws without the threat of brussels disallowing it. Classic example = a sensible immigration policy. 

 

Remainers never gave any reasons why we could have that in the EU, they just tried to dismiss it because they know it's the brexit smoking gun.

 

However many times you try to drag the argument on to economics - just remember that it was not the reason we left. 

Yeah, right. We’ve all forgotten about the Brexit bus.

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20 hours ago, hillmanhunter said:

There's a misunderstanding about the EU, That they're a friendly bunch.

They are absolutely ruthless when it comes to dealing with other parties. It makes sense, really. If you've got the kind of leverage they have then you'd be foolish not to use it.

What exactly is the computer voice complaining about? Is it that the EU are trying to look out for their own interest?

Looking out for their own interests by banning exports of vaccines they don't intend using?

Sounds cruel and insane to me.

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On 24/03/2021 at 09:25, For Us All said:

Yes,why deprive a neighbouring country of a vaccine that they have no intention of using.If the EU can't handle a medical crisis,how would it cope with a military crisis?

Never mind,as long as the trade's running smoothly?It's turned into a bit more than a trading bloc unfortunately.

They ban AZ, then complain because they haven't got enough, then some EU countries say they'll use it, others won't, the French will only give it to the over55's, the Germans won't give it to the over 55's, meanwhile millions of doses are going out of date.

And some people seriously wish we hadn't left the chaos of EU?

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So France and Germany are deciding all on their own what to with vaccination? So they aren't being told what to do by the EU? Would our vaccination roll out have looked any different if we hadn't left the EU? Doesnt look like it. 

The fact people are using this as a benefit of Brexit just means there is literally nothing else. 

Got any benefits that were promised in 2016 that have actually happened and benefitted us yet? 

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5 minutes ago, WV said:

So France and Germany are deciding all on their own what to with vaccination? So they aren't being told what to do by the EU? Would our vaccination roll out have looked any different if we hadn't left the EU? Doesnt look like it. 

The fact people are using this as a benefit of Brexit just means there is literally nothing else. 

Got any benefits that were promised in 2016 that have actually happened and benefitted us yet? 

Blue passports and a new lorry car park? All at the very reasonable price of £40 billion. 

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2 minutes ago, Doha said:

Blue passports and a new lorry car park? All at the very reasonable price of £40 billion. 

My passport is still red, its now useless as well, but its still red so I call fake news!

Edited by WV

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Just now, WV said:

My passport is still red, its now useless as well, but its still red so I call fake news!

You'll have sold it for UNICEF wheat and a jug of rain water by July the way exports are going. 

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3 hours ago, WV said:

So France and Germany are deciding all on their own what to with vaccination? So they aren't being told what to do by the EU? Would our vaccination roll out have looked any different if we hadn't left the EU? Doesnt look like it. 

The fact people are using this as a benefit of Brexit just means there is literally nothing else. 

Got any benefits that were promised in 2016 that have actually happened and benefitted us yet? 

It isn't just France and Germany though is it.The president of the EU Commission Ursula von der Leyen has warned that Brussels could prevent AZ from exporting vaccines.

When you consider that VdL was the defence minister when the German army had to join a NATO exercise with broomsticks because they had no rifles,I tend to worry. Apparently,she has always left a trail of disasters in a variety of jobs and is always quick to blame someone else,in this case AZ.

This in itself is major benefit of Brexit and a good one at that.Can you imagine being led by this person in a military conflict with her track record?

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On 24/03/2021 at 17:00, Jacko51 said:

I was under the impression we had the ability to control our borders before Brexit because we were never part of the Schengen area.  Also, numerous governments, both Tory and Labour, made little or no effort to implement control in an efficient manner.  Indeed, Tony Blair's government had the opportunity to implement the so-called transitional controls when a number of Eastern European countries joined the EU.  The UK, Ireland and Sweden were the only countries not to impose these and thus, there was a huge increase in immigration from these new member countries because they had nowhere else to go.  What did Cameron's government do to control immigration from non EU countries, which was greater than from the EU.  Bugger all.

There was really no need to Brexit to control numbers coming into this country.  There was just a need for a government of any colour to get their act together and do it. 

And the sovereignty argument continues to be rubbish.  A considerable number of those who voted to leave couldn't bloody spell it let alone understand what it meant in practice.

Your correct 

if the governments had been more strict on the borders we would still of been in the EU 

but yet again u remainers love to put us down and act like your better 

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