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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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4 hours ago, For Us All said:

You are getting mixed up between net and gross figures.

The £350m was a gross figure which was slightly less than the actual figure of £376m gross which the EU received from us in 2015.It wasn't a fib it was a fact,as the EU and the court conceded.

In 2018 the EU received £13billion from the UK and gave us back a rebate of £4 billion making our net contribution  £9billion.Fact.

I wasn’t getting mixed up at all. I’m glad you’ve clarified that for some posters on here who were convinced that we handed over £350 million and wouldn’t brook the explanation you’ve just given. One of them said any suggestion that we didn’t hand over the money on the bus was a fib. 

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6 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

You're lucky, I've only had one to my question about the cash and it was only one word!!

That's because we've been round this one so many times, The Office of National Statistics shows according to the UK government in 2018 the NET contribution by the UK to the EU was 212 million GBP/week, whereas the EU say that the average NET contribution/year from 2014- 2018 by the UK was was 150million GBP/week.

The NET contribution figures are after The Thatcher rebate and monies re-paid in rebates to the UK Government and Private Sectors.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Regal Beagle 100's of pages ago claimed there was evidence on some EU Official Website that proved the UK was contributing 350 million+ per week NET, he was rrepeatedly asked to post the link but never did, seems like similar claims are being made above.

The data is there for all to see in the above link from the UK Office of National Statistics, the data includes numbers from the UK and the EU.

There was never 350 million/week for the NHS, the UK has never paid 350 million/week NET into the EU it was a blatant lie.

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24 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

First, the only interest is seeing them scrabble about, some trying to get more, some trying to get out of paying more, all to make up the shortfall of our subs...

Second, where do you get "a minority thought it was a good idea to leave" from?

 

I minority thought it was a good idea to leave. A slightly smaller minority wanted to stay. Another minority didn’t express an opinion!

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1 minute ago, Paul6754 said:

That's because we've been round this one so many times, The Office of National Statistics shows according to the UK government in 2018 the NET contribution by the UK to the EU was 212 million GBP/week, whereas the EU say that the average NET contribution/year from 2014- 2018 by the UK was was 150million GBP/week.

The NET contribution figures are after The Thatcher rebate and monies re-paid in rebates to the UK Government and Private Sectors.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Regal Beagle 100's of pages ago claimed there was evidence on some EU Official Website that proved the UK was contributing 350 million+ per week NET, he was rrepeatedly asked to post the link but never did, seems like similar claims are being made above.

The data is there for all to see in the above link from the UK Office of National Statistics, the data includes numbers from the UK and the EU.

There was never 350 million/week for the NHS, the UK has never paid 350 million/week NET into the EU it was a blatant lie.

Exactly!

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10 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I minority thought it was a good idea to leave. A slightly smaller minority wanted to stay. Another minority didn’t express an opinion!

Due to a voting system that did not require a majority of the electorate to vote to leave. 

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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

That's because we've been round this one so many times, The Office of National Statistics shows according to the UK government in 2018 the NET contribution by the UK to the EU was 212 million GBP/week, whereas the EU say that the average NET contribution/year from 2014- 2018 by the UK was was 150million GBP/week.

The NET contribution figures are after The Thatcher rebate and monies re-paid in rebates to the UK Government and Private Sectors.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Regal Beagle 100's of pages ago claimed there was evidence on some EU Official Website that proved the UK was contributing 350 million+ per week NET, he was rrepeatedly asked to post the link but never did, seems like similar claims are being made above.

The data is there for all to see in the above link from the UK Office of National Statistics, the data includes numbers from the UK and the EU.

There was never 350 million/week for the NHS, the UK has never paid 350 million/week NET into the EU it was a blatant lie.

I posted links, screenshot, directions to find the page yourself.

 

You are arguing that water isn't wet. Please give it up or seek help.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Due to a voting system that did not require a majority of the electorate to vote to leave. 

AND A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE NEVER ONCE VOTED TO JOIN THE EU.

 

In fact, if we're being highly techincal on the subject, we never even got asked if we wanted to join the EU full stop. A MINORITY voted to join the EC.

 

So now that this cute little argument is completely null and void, can we put it to bed?

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2 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

AND A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE NEVER ONCE VOTED TO JOIN THE EU.

 

In fact, if we're being highly techincal on the subject, we never even got asked if we wanted to join the EU full stop. A MINORITY voted to join the EC.

 

So now that this cute little argument is completely null and void, can we put it to bed?

Everything doesn't have to go to a referendum. That is why we have MPs to make decIsions.

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On 19/02/2020 at 20:32, tommytunstall said:

You really are in cuckoo land. The EU have all the trump cards, aside of Johnsons hot air  we are in the mire, wait till the Farmers and Fisherman realise what they will get, and then start squealing, the Tories continue to stagger to their proffered option, taking the country down the No Deal route with them. RB and his Union Jack bum chums on here have been taken in, but the rest of the country will see what Captain Cummings and Cabin Boy Johnson are up to.

Platitudes.

Hollow assertions

Basic "they're bigger than us" stats that don't mean anything.

You've got nothing.

8 hours ago, Davebrad said:

with only one reply to my question "why do the eu want a level playing field with the uk", I went to the internet and POLITICO came up with:-

The biggest change is on so-called level playing field provisions — the extent to which the U.K. has the ability to undercut EU regulations on, say, labor rights or environmental regulations. In meetings with diplomats in recent weeks, Barnier has repeatedly raised the danger of the U.K. emerging as a robust competitor on Europe's doorstep...

The final text in fact includes a beefed up (and renumbered) clause 77 which retains the original commitment to "open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field." But it goes even further: “Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field.” In scope are matters such as state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment and climate change, and tax...

so it seems the great grand union of 27 member states, all working in harmony to the greater good and prosperity of all, is s**t scared that the poor deluded UK, which has democratically decided, and so democratically voted to leave the grand union, will be a threat to them, and they don't like it, and it does seem they can't take this insolent,  independent breakaway from their control with good grace.

Yet this is completely and utterly ignored by the people on here telling us that the EU have all the cards!

 

Once again the EU has completely betrayed the deranged arguments of bitter remainers.

 

Like it bretrayed them when remainers told us that the EU was not sovereign

Like it betrayed them when remainers told us the £350m figure was a lie

Now it bretrays them when they tell us that we don't have the stronger hand

 

These people are brainwashed by UK based pro-eu propaganda. The EU itself doesn't even believe their arguments.

 

At this point they really do just want to see Britain fail because they cannot accept the democratic will of this country.

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I tell you what Barnier, how about we'll keep regulatory alignment with the EU on the following conditions:

 

-UK courts are sovereign and all EU law must be compatible with UK law, otherwise we have the power to issue fines

-The EU pays us a membership fee, lets call it £350m a week

-The EU is not allowed to sign trade agreements with anyone outside of the UK

 

And one more, just for fun:

-Nigel Farage's beautiful face must feature on all eurozone currency.

 

What do you think the EU would say to that?

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On 19/02/2020 at 20:32, tommytunstall said:

You really are in cuckoo land. The EU have all the trump cards, aside of Johnsons hot air  we are in the mire, wait till the Farmers and Fisherman realise what they will get, and then start squealing, the Tories continue to stagger to their proffered option, taking the country down the No Deal route with them. RB and his Union Jack bum chums on here have been taken in, but the rest of the country will see what Captain Cummings and Cabin Boy Johnson are up to.

Just noticed the casual homophobia too. Classy.

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58 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I posted links, screenshot, directions to find the page yourself.

 

You are arguing that water isn't wet. Please give it up or seek help.

 

 

Regal, you did none of the above, prove you posted  the information or post it again rather than resorting to abuse, pretty simple.

The UK ONS link I posted above gives the information from both sides.

Edited by Paul6754

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35 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, you did none of the above, prove you posted  the information or post it again rather than resorting to abuse, pretty simple.

The UK ONS link I posted above gives the information from both sides.

No Paul, you ignored concrete evidence (Official EU source) the first time round and I'm not playing your game now. You don't get to pretend it doesn't exist because it doesn't suit your story.

 

We both know I posted links, screenshots and directions of how to find it for yourself on the EU's own website.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you think the £350m figure is a lie, you should take it up with the EU. That figure originated from their accounts, published by their website.

 

No abuse from me.

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2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

That's because we've been round this one so many times, The Office of National Statistics shows according to the UK government in 2018 the NET contribution by the UK to the EU was 212 million GBP/week, whereas the EU say that the average NET contribution/year from 2014- 2018 by the UK was was 150million GBP/week.

The NET contribution figures are after The Thatcher rebate and monies re-paid in rebates to the UK Government and Private Sectors.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Regal Beagle 100's of pages ago claimed there was evidence on some EU Official Website that proved the UK was contributing 350 million+ per week NET, he was rrepeatedly asked to post the link but never did, seems like similar claims are being made above.

The data is there for all to see in the above link from the UK Office of National Statistics, the data includes numbers from the UK and the EU.

There was never 350 million/week for the NHS, the UK has never paid 350 million/week NET into the EU it was a blatant lie.

No it wasn't a lie,the high court said so.

We did send £350 million a week to the EU but we never said whether it was gross or net.

It's all in the detail.

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16 minutes ago, For Us All said:

No it wasn't a lie,the high court said so.

We did send £350 million a week to the EU but we never said whether it was gross or net.

It's all in the detail.

Shall I tell you who else confirms the figure is true?

 

It's Paul's very own ONS of course:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/compendium/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook/2015-10-30/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook

If anyone would care to go to Chapter 9 of their 2015 pink book, an excel download, it details the UK transactions with the EU. They list the gross figure at £19.3b (£371m per week) and the net at £11.2b (£215m per week).

 

So now we have:

The high court

The EU

The ONS

 

All confirming that the £350m AS A GROSS FIGURE is not only correct, but actually they have lowballed it a bit if anything.

 

As we've proven a million times on this website, the only criticism you can fire at that figure is that it wasn't clear whether it was net or gross. Given that it was 100% accurate as a gross figure then I don't see how anyone was intentionally trying to deceive anyone?

 

The high court chucked this one in the bin once, what is the point in going over it again?

 

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27 minutes ago, For Us All said:

No it wasn't a lie,the high court said so.

We did send £350 million a week to the EU but we never said whether it was gross or net.

It's all in the detail.

So it wasn't a lie, just a terminological inexactitude.

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