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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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On ‎19‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 13:41, hillmanhunter said:

Because when you're that big you can set the rules. What's the point in having clout if you're not prepared to use it?

I'm sure we'll be fine. Even though Joe B's posts don't include the service industry where we're at a surplus with the EU.

We can all eat fish.

or is it because they fear that, as we haven't succumbed to their and our home grown fearologists, and they see other countries are willing to come and trade with us, they are now worried... the eu have internal problems and pressures ie Germany economy, French farmers very aggressive, Poland and Hungary rebelling against the eu, Norway and Sweden under pressure to pay more into the pot, so Greece Spain etc can have more out, and poor little, off shore UK votes to get out of it and take their £67m with them. If what the news reporters are saying about the budget meeting, those doors are locked and will be for the foreseeable future, till the bloodletting has finished...if it ever does. Its akin to sitting back up in the balcony and enjoying the show.

 

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which countries are coming to trade with us' or are you thinking of the Faroe Islands, the big countries ain't queuing up, and like Trump has said it will be on there terms, we do not have any clout.  The leavers have been saying for 3 years now other countries in the EU will follow us out, don't kid yourself, they know where there bread is buttered.

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All this money we aren’t giving to the EU, surely a lot of it will have to be used to fill in the gaps left by EU funding like subsidies to our farmers, regional development fund money and the like. How much of the phantom £350 million will actually be available to spend on new projects?

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

All this money we aren’t giving to the EU, surely a lot of it will have to be used to fill in the gaps left by EU funding like subsidies to our farmers, regional development fund money and the like. How much of the phantom £350 million will actually be available to spend on new projects?

Nowt Jacko.

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14 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

which countries are coming to trade with us' or are you thinking of the Faroe Islands, the big countries ain't queuing up, and like Trump has said it will be on there terms, we do not have any clout.  The leavers have been saying for 3 years now other countries in the EU will follow us out, don't kid yourself, they know where there bread is buttered.

Well,18 of them do,they don't pay anything in?

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with only one reply to my question "why do the eu want a level playing field with the uk", I went to the internet and POLITICO came up with:-

The biggest change is on so-called level playing field provisions — the extent to which the U.K. has the ability to undercut EU regulations on, say, labor rights or environmental regulations. In meetings with diplomats in recent weeks, Barnier has repeatedly raised the danger of the U.K. emerging as a robust competitor on Europe's doorstep...

The final text in fact includes a beefed up (and renumbered) clause 77 which retains the original commitment to "open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field." But it goes even further: “Given the Union and the United Kingdom's geographic proximity and economic interdependence, the future relationship must ensure open and fair competition, encompassing robust commitments to ensure a level playing field.” In scope are matters such as state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment and climate change, and tax...

so it seems the great grand union of 27 member states, all working in harmony to the greater good and prosperity of all, is s**t scared that the poor deluded UK, which has democratically decided, and so democratically voted to leave the grand union, will be a threat to them, and they don't like it, and it does seem they can't take this insolent,  independent breakaway from their control with good grace.

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14 minutes ago, For Us All said:

To make you £9billion worse off every year?

£9 billion?  That's only £173 million a week.  I thought we were informed frequently by Vote Leave that we sent the EU £350 million a week.  Don't tell me they were telling fibs all this time?  Or can't you do sums?

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this report yesterday from the Guardian (left, right, leave, remain,?)

EU summit collapses as leaders struggle to fill €75bn Brexit hole

A summit of EU leaders seeking to fill a €75bn hole in the bloc’s budget left by Brexit dramatically collapsed after Angela Merkel led major contributors in rejecting a proposal that would have left them paying billions more.

The meeting in Brussels was brought to an abrupt end on Friday evening, with the leaders deeply divided, leaving the European council president, Charles Michel, to admit: “We need more time.”

The UK’s departure has left EU states struggling to fund plans over the next seven years to tackle the climate emergency, aid poorer regions and continue to subsidise farmers through the common agricultural policy.

The 27 heads of state and government must agree on a budget for the next seven years, and the European parliament must give its endorsement, before the end of 2020, to avoid the EU’s spending programmes grinding to a halt. “We are super, super late,” admitted one EU official

Four member states, known as the “frugals” – the Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and Sweden – have insisted that the EU budget amounts to no more than 1% of the bloc’s gross national income.

They received the support of Merkel, the German chancellor, in opposing proposals that would slash the rebates they receive on their contributions, designed to ensure the biggest contributors do not overpay.

One EU diplomat said of Michel: “He wanted enough cash to buy a Range Rover; we only have the money for a Volkswagen – and worst of all he asked Mutti [Merkel] to pay for the Range Rover.”

Responding to claims from reporters that the summit had been a failure, Michel insisted that the issue had to be debated at the “highest political level” and that he now better understood the member states’ positions.

A late suggestion on Friday tabled by the European commission proposed to reduce the size of the additional burden on the the biggest payers, including Germany, through significant cuts in the EU’s science and research programmes.

The compromise proposal would trim €10bn off a budget put forward by Michel.

Under the new plan, the four “frugal” member states and Germany would retain their rebates. France would also see increased cash for its farmers through the common agricultural policy.

Merkel told reporters: “The differences were simply too big.”

Diplomats from the self-styled friends of cohesion" grouping, consisting of the net recipients of EU cash, put the failure down to a lack of solidarity among the richest member states.

so after 2 days the meet broke up, but in this report the most telling sentence is . "France would also see increased cash for farmers    through the common agricultural policy" this to help keep macron safe from his farmers and yellow vests...

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25 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

this report yesterday from the Guardian (left, right, leave, remain,?)

EU summit collapses as leaders struggle to fill €75bn Brexit hole

A summit of EU leaders seeking to fill a €75bn hole in the bloc’s budget left by Brexit dramatically collapsed after Angela Merkel led major contributors in rejecting a proposal that would have left them paying billions more.

The meeting in Brussels was brought to an abrupt end on Friday evening, with the leaders deeply divided, leaving the European council president, Charles Michel, to admit: “We need more time.”

The UK’s departure has left EU states struggling to fund plans over the next seven years to tackle the climate emergency, aid poorer regions and continue to subsidise farmers through the common agricultural policy.

The 27 heads of state and government must agree on a budget for the next seven years, and the European parliament must give its endorsement, before the end of 2020, to avoid the EU’s spending programmes grinding to a halt. “We are super, super late,” admitted one EU official

Four member states, known as the “frugals” – the Netherlands, Denmark, Austria and Sweden – have insisted that the EU budget amounts to no more than 1% of the bloc’s gross national income.

They received the support of Merkel, the German chancellor, in opposing proposals that would slash the rebates they receive on their contributions, designed to ensure the biggest contributors do not overpay.

One EU diplomat said of Michel: “He wanted enough cash to buy a Range Rover; we only have the money for a Volkswagen – and worst of all he asked Mutti [Merkel] to pay for the Range Rover.”

Responding to claims from reporters that the summit had been a failure, Michel insisted that the issue had to be debated at the “highest political level” and that he now better understood the member states’ positions.

A late suggestion on Friday tabled by the European commission proposed to reduce the size of the additional burden on the the biggest payers, including Germany, through significant cuts in the EU’s science and research programmes.

The compromise proposal would trim €10bn off a budget put forward by Michel.

Under the new plan, the four “frugal” member states and Germany would retain their rebates. France would also see increased cash for its farmers through the common agricultural policy.

Merkel told reporters: “The differences were simply too big.”

Diplomats from the self-styled friends of cohesion" grouping, consisting of the net recipients of EU cash, put the failure down to a lack of solidarity among the richest member states.

so after 2 days the meet broke up, but in this report the most telling sentence is . "France would also see increased cash for farmers    through the common agricultural policy" this to help keep macron safe from his farmers and yellow vests...

Why the interest in an organisation a minority thought it was a good idea to leave. I can never remember quick decisions in the EU, otherwise their leaders are accused of not defending their countries interests and throwing in the total. I would have thought of more concern would have been the absentee PM in the UK, or are we being lead by an unelected scruff?

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42 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Money is not all the picture

If money isn't part of the problem the rest should have no worries about picking up the shortfall.....

It sounds like.....

You have to sell your product to us at the price we say we want to pay..... you can't sell your product to anyone else unless we agree to it..... you have to buy our product and you have to buy at the price we decide.

Is that a third party controlled monopoly?.... are the EU saying we can be free provided they control our economy?

For the privilege of giving us this agreement they demand fishing rights etc etc.

Sounds like a crap deal looking at it like that.

We should let them sort their financial shortfalls out then they can decide if they want to jettison a few extra billions in trade by not agreeing a deal and pick up that slack between the members...... at the moment they seem to be struggling with the reduced contributions they will get.... it seems to be causing problems.

Sod level playing fields, stack whatever odds are available in our favour.

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15 minutes ago, geosname said:

If money isn't part of the problem the rest should have no worries about picking up the shortfall.....

 

Money into the EU had other benefits, 3 railway bridges in our village were raised using EU funding as part of the link between the East and West Coast mainlines, to allow containers to be carried by rail instead of road transport. 

Edited by Fosse69

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

£9 billion?  That's only £173 million a week.  I thought we were informed frequently by Vote Leave that we sent the EU £350 million a week.  Don't tell me they were telling fibs all this time?  Or can't you do sums?

You are getting mixed up between net and gross figures.

The £350m was a gross figure which was slightly less than the actual figure of £376m gross which the EU received from us in 2015.It wasn't a fib it was a fact,as the EU and the court conceded.

In 2018 the EU received £13billion from the UK and gave us back a rebate of £4 billion making our net contribution  £9billion.Fact.

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5 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Why the interest in an organisation a minority thought it was a good idea to leave. I can never remember quick decisions in the EU, otherwise their leaders are accused of not defending their countries interests and throwing in the total. I would have thought of more concern would have been the absentee PM in the UK, or are we being lead by an unelected scruff?

First, the only interest is seeing them scrabble about, some trying to get more, some trying to get out of paying more, all to make up the shortfall of our subs...

Second, where do you get "a minority thought it was a good idea to leave" from?

 

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