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Beyond Brexit - A new dawn? A leap of faith?


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2 hours ago, Heatwave said:

I suppose we should have nothing to do with France, or Spain, or Germany, in fact anyone in the world we have fought a war against in the past. Or is it because the Irish Troubles are still within relatively recent memory?

Whenever there has been conflict, someone has to reach out to make peace - and that's what Sinn Fein did by the Good Friday Agreement and the fact that they have shared power, peacefully, in Northern Ireland since 1999. Or do you have no interest in peace?

I'm all for peace, but that depends on both sides, blair sold justice out to be able to say I got the good Friday agreement thru, he gave the terrorists a get out of jail card if they were identified to have  commited atrocities, which are being used now, and yet British troops are being pursued 50yrs after. Let justice be done equally to all...

A declaration of war is a "civil" way of fighting a war, under "rules", ie the Geneva convention, the ira fought dirty against civilians mainly, ie irish and British, The GFA was signed on 10th April 1998 4months later the ira killed 29 in Omagh, and there have been 158 security related deaths in Northern Ireland since the agreement. Its in their blood.

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1 hour ago, For Us All said:

The Democrats tried to get Trump with that one as well?

If you think about it, the country who benfits most from an idiot in the White House and a weakened EU (especially militarially without us ) is Russia. The report is complete, where is it?

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3 hours ago, bycars rob said:

If you think about it, the country who benfits most from an idiot in the White House and a weakened EU (especially militarially without us ) is Russia. The report is complete, where is it?

Dunner know but Jezza might,he seems to be well in with the Russians?

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5 hours ago, Davebrad said:

I'm all for peace, but that depends on both sides, blair sold justice out to be able to say I got the good Friday agreement thru, he gave the terrorists a get out of jail card if they were identified to have  commited atrocities, which are being used now, and yet British troops are being pursued 50yrs after. Let justice be done equally to all...

A declaration of war is a "civil" way of fighting a war, under "rules", ie the Geneva convention, the ira fought dirty against civilians mainly, ie irish and British, The GFA was signed on 10th April 1998 4months later the ira killed 29 in Omagh, and there have been 158 security related deaths in Northern Ireland since the agreement. Its in their blood.

As horrific as many incidents have been that have involved the IRA, and in no way condoning terrorist activity, it's an unbelievably dumb thing to say, just to say something like "its in their blood". Read some history Dave. This stuff didn't start in the 1970's.

If you still have questions why, by all means come back and I'd be happy to discuss with you at that point.

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26 minutes ago, The_godfather said:

As horrific as many incidents have been that have involved the IRA, and in no way condoning terrorist activity, it's an unbelievably dumb thing to say, just to say something like "its in their blood". Read some history Dave. This stuff didn't start in the 1970's.

If you still have questions why, by all means come back and I'd be happy to discuss with you at that point.

no, it is, the ira rule with a iron fist right from their beginning, no one dared oppose or cross them, if your not with them you are against them. Cross them at least its knee capping, or death, they rule by fear, religion also is in the mix.

A couple at least generations have been brought up on anything goes for the cause, nail bombs, petrol bombs, shootings, innocent civilians here and in N.Ireland no thought of who is killed, just do it for the cause, as I said its in the blood.

A few years ago a car bomb filled with petrol cans, only stopped because a off duty fireman saw condensation on its windows realised what it was and told the police, this outside a night club/dance hall to cause as much injury as possible. We,ve all seen the news reports, indiscriminate killings, look at the bomb under the lorry to England the other week only found due to a tip off, that could have gone off anywhere.

For terrorists the death penalty should be brought back...

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17 hours ago, Heatwave said:

I suppose we should have nothing to do with France, or Spain, or Germany, in fact anyone in the world we have fought a war against in the past. Or is it because the Irish Troubles are still within relatively recent memory?

Whenever there has been conflict, someone has to reach out to make peace - and that's what Sinn Fein did by the Good Friday Agreement and the fact that they have shared power, peacefully, in Northern Ireland since 1999. Or do you have no interest in peace?

Funny definition of peace.

 

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10 hours ago, For Us All said:

Dunner know but Jezza might,he seems to be well in with the Russians?

We would know if the report is published and as every Tory mouthpiece at the election stated Jezza is not a kgb spy( I suspect they wouldn`t want him he was so incompetent)  

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The troubles in Ireland were a war in all bar name and terrible things happen in war. Atrocities on all sides were committed and thankfully thanks to the work of Major and Blair we have had relative peace so lets be thankful for that at least. It siticks in the craw that some have evaded justice but time we moved on.

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Quote

 

Anyway back to the topic, this from the Guardian: a lengthy read but interesting...

 
 
The Guardian

‘Fighting like ferrets in a bag’ as EU tries to plug Brexit cash hole

Presidents, prime ministers and chancellors across Europe will pack their bags later this week in preparation for a long weekend in Brussels. They won’t, however, be taking in the baroque majesty of the Grand Place or savouring the local culinary treats. Instead, they will be preparing for that most infamous of events, a “four shirter”, to use the clothes-packing gauge adopted by male diplomats to measure the length and horror of EU leaders’ summits in the Belgian capital. The thorny subject this time around? Money. And the problem? Britain.

The UK’s withdrawal from the European Union has left a huge €75bn (£62bn) hole in the bloc’s budget for the next seven years, 2021 to 2027. “And now we are fighting like ferrets in a sack,” said one EU diplomat with a sigh.

Covering items ranging from agricultural subsidies to science programmes and the EU’s efforts to combat the climate emergency, the new multi-annual financial framework (MFF) needs to be agreed by the leaders and an increasingly unpredictable European parliament before the end of the year. Without agreement, everything risks grinding to a halt in just nine months’ time, including the flow of cohesion funds, the cash dedicated to supporting the poorest member states.

Budget discussions in Brussels are always rancorous affairs. But this one is of a different order: everyone will have to pay more. No one wants to. EU capitals are bristling for a fight when they come to Brussels on Thursday for day one. Ominously for the diplomatic corps, an end date for the summit has not been fixed, but four days of talking are on the cards.

There are two main rivals in the budget battle. On one side are those who proudly describe themselves as “the Frugals” – the Netherlands, Austria, Sweden and Denmark (although there are some concerns within the camp that the new Austrian coalition government, being a bit Green now, has been lost to them, and that the Swedes are going soft). As the biggest net payers, the Frugals have been insisting on a budget of no more than 1% of the EU’s gross national income. The European commission’s initial proposal was for 1.1% – around €1.25tn over the seven years.

Then there are the “Friends of Cohesion”. “The Friends of Corruption, you mean?” spat one EU diplomat from a Frugal state.

The 15 under the FoC flag are the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Estonia, Croatia, Malta, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Portugal and Greece.

The Frugals say that the commission’s €90bn in cuts to agriculture and cohesion fundingare not enough. The FoC say they are being unfairly targeted and that the richer countries should cough up some more, setting up a battle between east and west.

The debate is all the more toxic as the commission has proposed that cohesion funds should also, in the future, be conditional on member states respecting the rule of law. It is a red rag to the bulls in the nationalist governments of Hungary and Poland, who are already in a battle with Brussels over their judicial reforms, among other issues.

Then there is France and Germany. Berlin’s main concern is that they don’t come out of it looking worse than the French. In Paris, the government just worries about how much cash is going to go to its farmers, said one senior EU official. The fragmentation of the national debates leaves it impossible to say what will happen, said a second official, with even Irish politics in turmoil following the election that has made Sinn Féin the second largest parliamentary party.

Going in to the summit, the European council’s president, Charles Michel, a former prime minister of Belgium, has been engaged in furious shuttle diplomacy around the capitals.

Michel has put forward an alternative proposal for the budget to be 1.074% of the bloc’s gross national income (€1.094tn) in an attempt to split the difference between the warring camps.

“In this negotiation, we are not expecting member states to be happy, but the degree ofdissatisfaction will be key,” said a senior EU official. “No chance,” responded a Frugal diplomat. “There is not a lot to say, except we won’t pay. And as the Rolling Stones song goes, ‘Time is on my side’.”

Good init... don't you just love it.
 
 
   
 
Edited by Davebrad

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5 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Yet we need them more than they need us?

 

Cannot wait for the next member state to leave. That will really open the floodgates.

In 2018, UK Exports to the EU were £291 billion (45% of all UK Exports). UK Imports from the EU were £357 billion (53% of all UK Imports)

In 2016, about 8% of the total of all the  EU's goods and services exports went to the UK.

Who needs who the most, well if I got in that fight I know which side of the fence I'd rather be on and it ain't the UK's.

Edited by Paul6754

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8 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

In 2018, UK Exports to the EU were £291 billion (45% of all UK Exports). UK Imports from the EU were £357 billion (53% of all UK Imports)

In 2016, about 8% of the total of all the  EU's goods and services exports went to the UK.

Who needs who the most, well if I got in that fight I know which side of the fence I'd rather be on and it ain't the UK's.

We will see Paul. That trade isnt going to disappear.

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