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Match Thread: Port Vale v Leyton Orient


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5 minutes ago, TylerB said:

 

All this talk about Amoo - There's a reason why he plays in League Two. Consistency. He blows hot and cold - If he blew more hot than cold he would have been playing a league or two higher up in his career. It's that simple.

 

He'll have quiet spells and will frustrate a lot, but he's a threat. Other teams will worry about him and make plans to try and deal with him.

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

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10 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

I’d have taken the season tickets holders allocation down to one ticket. I’m a season ticket holder but knew I couldn’t make it when the draw was made, so I didn’t buy a ticket. I have heard from a reliable source that no records were made on a season tickets being used to purchase tickets. This meant that some unscrupulous ST holders had more than their allocated two tickets.

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6 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

Brilliant. So pleased to see this. We all stereotype and categorize. It's how we work. We are trying to make sense of the world.

Once we've decided, we then notice any signs that confirm our view. Often ignoring other evidence.

Confirmation Bias.

Of course it's racist. 

My point is. We all judge, it's a natural human instinct.

Tolerance is acc

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9 minutes ago, SFBT said:

Brilliant. So pleased to see this. We all stereotype and categorize. It's how we work. We are trying to make sense of the world.

Once we've decided, we then notice any signs that confirm our view. Often ignoring other evidence.

Confirmation Bias.

Of course it's racist. 

My point is. We all judge, it's a natural human instinct.

Tolerance is accepting that we judge and moderating our responses.

 

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7 hours ago, JohnJames said:

 

I just can’t understand what the ref saw. He had a clear, unobstructed view about 5 yards away of their guy had both feet off the ground. It was certainly not a 50/50 ball as someone suggested. 

I know everyone feels they get hard done to by refs by I really don’t think we get the rub of the green with any of them, not that it mattered in the end, thankfully. 

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On 15/01/2020 at 18:09, darren1810 said:

Still haunted by the last gasp goal away to these where it felt like we'd lost. 

These have had a poor season , unsurprising after the tragedy of Edinburgh passing away. Surely go for the throat from the off, be nice to get a really convincing win but a scrappy 1-0 will do just as well. Surely this is the time to ring the changes, nothing stupid but maybe up to three.

Is Burgess due a rest ? Conlon or even Pope dropped/rested . 

I'd like to see Atkinson and Cullen start just to freshen things up a bit.

With regard to the fiver off, you can't knock the club for trying something but i don't think it will have a huge impact on the crowd. 

Had it been a tenner then maybe so but then we have the age old, ' it's unfair on season ticket holders ' 

Can I have next weeks lottery numbers please??

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8 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

I heard fans at Mansfield describe him as a 'typical black winger'.

However, I really like Amoo and have consistently defended him, but I do think at times he can be slightly laid back in his efforts. He got absolutely rollicked by Gibbons towards the end of the game for being on the half way line when they had an overload on our right. He spent the last 5 minutes walking in the centre halves position.

I think there is an element of truth to what you say, but he also warrants a lot of discussion because he is an exciting player who naturally grabs attention as he is rapid winger. His performances are either superb or anonymous; the rest of our players are fairly consistent, mostly average. Worrall, Burgess, Joyce, Gibbo, Smith, Montano, Legge; they largely give 6.5-7/10 every week. Amoo is often a 8 or a 5. I think he gets so much scrutiny partly due to his fluctuating form.

Fans are fed tropes by Radio Stoke and the imbeciles that sit around them, so a lot of them have fully bought into the 'Amoo is lazy' idea and enjoy kicking off when they see evidence of it. Its like a sport for some of them; who can be first to give a disgruntled moan when Amoo loses the ball.

 

 

Edited by Joe B
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5 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

I didnt see any of this match. Lovely result to wake up to. Well done JA and the lads.

As a team effort and it’s only my opinion from the games I’ve seen, I’d put it as the fourth best team performance I’ve seen this season. The best being Plymouth at home, Crewe away and Swindon at home. I’ve seen all but one home game and a couple away so there could be better performances that I’ve missed. It’s obviously very a subjective topic. What I can say is that I’ve witnessed some some average games and not so good games, which as ppl have pointed out tend to against the lower teams. Overall I’d still say the average and not so good games were better than previous seasons as I formed the belief that we might win, the games even when going behind. Previous seasons I’d have thought that’s it unless we get a penalty we’ll lose. At the end of the season we’ll forget the nit so good performances and probably all agree it’s been a good season for us, taken the progress that we’ve made.

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8 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

Why was Conlon getting singled out yesterday?

Why was Amoo being applauded so vociferously, and was many people's actual man of the match (mine included)?

Why does Leon Legge not get singled out?

 

I think it's lazy and disingenuous to accuse people of racism with no evidence other than the fact that Amoo is black.

 

Do I think some Vale fans are racist? Yes

Do I think there's a conspiracy, conscious or otherwise to label black players as lazy, no.

 

Amoo was getting stick because he'd been relatively quiet for the last 2 months or so. Before then he had noticably been one of our best players and no one was talking about racism. He gets the most stick when he pulls out of challenges or turns back to pass to Gibbo instead of taking the full back on. I don't think that is anything to do with his skin colour. Port Vale fans have always been frustrated by players who do not fully commit in tackles - Whitaker, Chris Lines etc. They were both singled out too at times and I don't think it had anything to do with Whitaker's dreadlocks.

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Frustrating day. Stuck at Liverpool Lime Street as all trains south suspended due to incident at Winsford. Never got there even allowing my usual contingency for things going wrong. If I imagine what the incident at Winsford is most likely to have been I guess I should not be frustrated about missing a football match.

Good win. Amoo is a really important player. He may go missing in phases of the game where the ball is just getting passed around, but he seems to often be involved importantly with goals scored. He is about as close to Messi as we are likely to get. But not that close as every shop in Burslem isn't bedecked with Port Vale Amoo shirts.

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You make some good points, reflecting that none of this stuff is simple.

It does frustrate me when players are singled out and, whatever they do, they're criticised.

Can't believe it's helpful.

 

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Really enjoyed yesterday’s game as I thought in places we showed what we can do with some good football and committed performances throughout. The changes were probably necessary and certainly Cullen makes a case to start next week, he had a good game. His touch is fantastic, some of the  passes he was pulling out of the air from over his shoulder were pure filth and it’s a pity he missed that chance as it would have been the icing on the cake for an excellent all round game. We absolutely murdered them down our right hand side, either Amoo went one on one and more often than not got a cross in, some of which were quality cut backs to the edge of the box. A cross can look bad when players haven’t made the right run, all you can do is put it in the right areas and hope someone makes the right run too. I thought Amoo did that in the first half. Other occasions saw Gibbo joined in to test their winger out to see if he’d go back with him. A couple of time he managed to find himself in that pocket of space he scored from in midweek. In terms of play coming in from our right both Atkinson and Worrall should have done better with their chances.  The left hand side wasnt as productive in that first half, not for lack of effort though. One thing we did really well was switch play with some great cross field balls to Amoo. Atkinson didn’t seem to be in the game as much as Joyce or Burgess in that half, but he was putting a lot of miles in tracking runners and trying to break the lines going forward. 

Second half possibly our left side came into the game more, Monty made some good runs, worrall got a few more crosses in too. We also played some nice stuff again down the right, playing keep ball at times.  Joyce was keeping it ticking over too. As I mentioned earlier the icing on Cullens cake should have been a goal, that was a great chance made by Worrall. Don’t know how he missed it. I’m certain that their lad should have seen red for the challenge on Monty, it’s not even debatable IMO. Amoo got the goal his and our performance had deserved, but as the game wore on his efforts to help out behind him became a bit more laboured and in that last 15 mins or so their full back got forward to overload us. Thats something I’ve said often about his game, his tendency to switch off and not put that extra in when we need him to also put a shift in going the other way. There’s no sweeping that aspect of his game under the carpet, I can see that he does that, you can clearly see the reaction it elicits from other players too. The performance on Tuesday saw him do that also not look interested going forward either and he’s done it a few times this season. We need to be careful not to label everything as racism when someone posts their opinion on his performances on here just because he’s black.  But what I do know is that when he’s on his game he can do something to change it, with an assist or a goal. He just needs to show it more. Overall it was a well deserved win considering the chances we created and the performances most of our players put in.

It’s funny listening to fans after games and sometimes on here too. It could have been 2-2 today...... If we hadn’t have got that penalty at Stevenage.. ...all ifs and buts..... looking at what could have happened instead of what did. Hopefully when we get a chance we take it and hopefully when the opposition get a chance our lads do their job, like Browny did yesterday or when he was beaten Gibbo got back on the line to do his job too. Based on yesterday I think I’d go with the same team at Swindon.

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9 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

There is always talk about creative players. It’s because they are the exciting ones. The ones you go to see. The ones that people put pressure on to make something happen. If they aren’t on it you tend to notice and they tend to get stick. It happens at every club up and down the country. Just the nature of the beast. 

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32 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

 

Really enjoyed yesterday’s game as I thought in places we showed what we can do with some good football and committed performances throughout. The changes were probably necessary and certainly Cullen makes a case to start next week, he had a good game. His touch is fantastic, some of the  passes he was pulling out of the air from over his shoulder were pure filth and it’s a pity he missed that chance as it would have been the icing on the cake for an excellent all round game. We absolutely murdered them down our right hand side, either Amoo went one on one and more often than not got a cross in, some of which were quality cut backs to the edge of the box. A cross can look bad when players haven’t made the right run, all you can do is put it in the right areas and hope someone makes the right run too. I thought Amoo did that in the first half. Other occasions saw Gibbo joined in to test their winger out to see if he’d go back with him. A couple of time he managed to find himself in that pocket of space he scored from in midweek. In terms of play coming in from our right both Atkinson and Worrall should have done better with their chances.  The left hand side wasnt as productive in that first half, not for lack of effort though. One thing we did really well was switch play with some great cross field balls to Amoo. Atkinson didn’t seem to be in the game as much as Joyce or Burgess in that half, but he was putting a lot of miles in tracking runners and trying to break the lines going forward. 

Second half possibly our left side came into the game more, Monty made some good runs, worrall got a few more crosses in too. We also played some nice stuff again down the right, playing keep ball at times.  Joyce was keeping it ticking over too. As I mentioned earlier the icing on Cullens cake should have been a goal, that was a great chance made by Worrall. Don’t know how he missed it. I’m certain that their lad should have seen red for the challenge on Monty, it’s not even debatable IMO. Amoo got the goal his and our performance had deserved, but as the game wore on his efforts to help out behind him became a bit more laboured and in that last 15 mins or so their full back got forward to overload us. Thats something I’ve said often about his game, his tendency to switch off and not put that extra in when we need him to also put a shift in going the other way. There’s no sweeping that aspect of his game under the carpet, I can see that he does that, you can clearly see the reaction it elicits from other players too. The performance on Tuesday saw him do that also not look interested going forward either and he’s done it a few times this season. We need to be careful not to label everything as racism when someone posts their opinion on his performances on here just because he’s black.  But what I do know is that when he’s on his game he can do something to change it, with an assist or a goal. He just needs to show it more. Overall it was a well deserved win considering the chances we created and the performances most of our players put in.

It’s funny listening to fans after games and sometimes on here too. It could have been 2-2 today...... If we hadn’t have got that penalty at Stevenage.. ...all ifs and buts..... looking at what could have happened instead of what did. Hopefully when we get a chance we take it and hopefully when the opposition get a chance our lads do their job, like Browny did yesterday or when he was beaten Gibbo got back on the line to do his job too. Based on yesterday I think I’d go with the same team at Swindon.

Spot on, great post.

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12 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

Big shout out to Scott Brown, more great saves again today, the best of which, from the off side Angol(?), was so good it caused a mini celebration in the Bycars as if we’d scored, including several fans rushing down to the front of the stand. Can’t remember the last time I saw that.

Angol was offside so it wouldn't have counted!  Brown didn't know that though.

Edit.  Note to self - read to end of thread before posting!!

Edited by Jacko51
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2 hours ago, SFBT said:

You make some good points, reflecting that none of this stuff is simple.

It does frustrate me when players are singled out and, whatever they do, they're criticised.

Can't believe it's helpful.

 

It happens every season - some Vale fans pick on a player whom they blame for everything and to whom they give no credit whatever he does.  Last year it was Joyce, this year it's Amoo.  A while ago it was Constantine.  It's sheer ignorance I'm afraid. 

Amoo scored against Macc and scored yesterday - goals in consecutive home games.  He laid on a goal at Mansfield and Manchester City.  He brought the save of the game out of the Morecambe keeper but apparently he's done nowt recently.  He laid one on a plate for Atkinson in the first minute yesterday and only Jake Taylor has scored more league goals for us. 

I may vote for him as Player of the Season just to annoy some folk!!

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