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Match Thread: Port Vale v Leyton Orient


Fosse69

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5 hours ago, MelbourneValiant said:

I didnt see any of this match. Lovely result to wake up to. Well done JA and the lads.

As a team effort and it’s only my opinion from the games I’ve seen, I’d put it as the fourth best team performance I’ve seen this season. The best being Plymouth at home, Crewe away and Swindon at home. I’ve seen all but one home game and a couple away so there could be better performances that I’ve missed. It’s obviously very a subjective topic. What I can say is that I’ve witnessed some some average games and not so good games, which as ppl have pointed out tend to against the lower teams. Overall I’d still say the average and not so good games were better than previous seasons as I formed the belief that we might win, the games even when going behind. Previous seasons I’d have thought that’s it unless we get a penalty we’ll lose. At the end of the season we’ll forget the nit so good performances and probably all agree it’s been a good season for us, taken the progress that we’ve made.

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8 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

Why was Conlon getting singled out yesterday?

Why was Amoo being applauded so vociferously, and was many people's actual man of the match (mine included)?

Why does Leon Legge not get singled out?

 

I think it's lazy and disingenuous to accuse people of racism with no evidence other than the fact that Amoo is black.

 

Do I think some Vale fans are racist? Yes

Do I think there's a conspiracy, conscious or otherwise to label black players as lazy, no.

 

Amoo was getting stick because he'd been relatively quiet for the last 2 months or so. Before then he had noticably been one of our best players and no one was talking about racism. He gets the most stick when he pulls out of challenges or turns back to pass to Gibbo instead of taking the full back on. I don't think that is anything to do with his skin colour. Port Vale fans have always been frustrated by players who do not fully commit in tackles - Whitaker, Chris Lines etc. They were both singled out too at times and I don't think it had anything to do with Whitaker's dreadlocks.

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Frustrating day. Stuck at Liverpool Lime Street as all trains south suspended due to incident at Winsford. Never got there even allowing my usual contingency for things going wrong. If I imagine what the incident at Winsford is most likely to have been I guess I should not be frustrated about missing a football match.

Good win. Amoo is a really important player. He may go missing in phases of the game where the ball is just getting passed around, but he seems to often be involved importantly with goals scored. He is about as close to Messi as we are likely to get. But not that close as every shop in Burslem isn't bedecked with Port Vale Amoo shirts.

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Really enjoyed yesterday’s game as I thought in places we showed what we can do with some good football and committed performances throughout. The changes were probably necessary and certainly Cullen makes a case to start next week, he had a good game. His touch is fantastic, some of the  passes he was pulling out of the air from over his shoulder were pure filth and it’s a pity he missed that chance as it would have been the icing on the cake for an excellent all round game. We absolutely murdered them down our right hand side, either Amoo went one on one and more often than not got a cross in, some of which were quality cut backs to the edge of the box. A cross can look bad when players haven’t made the right run, all you can do is put it in the right areas and hope someone makes the right run too. I thought Amoo did that in the first half. Other occasions saw Gibbo joined in to test their winger out to see if he’d go back with him. A couple of time he managed to find himself in that pocket of space he scored from in midweek. In terms of play coming in from our right both Atkinson and Worrall should have done better with their chances.  The left hand side wasnt as productive in that first half, not for lack of effort though. One thing we did really well was switch play with some great cross field balls to Amoo. Atkinson didn’t seem to be in the game as much as Joyce or Burgess in that half, but he was putting a lot of miles in tracking runners and trying to break the lines going forward. 

Second half possibly our left side came into the game more, Monty made some good runs, worrall got a few more crosses in too. We also played some nice stuff again down the right, playing keep ball at times.  Joyce was keeping it ticking over too. As I mentioned earlier the icing on Cullens cake should have been a goal, that was a great chance made by Worrall. Don’t know how he missed it. I’m certain that their lad should have seen red for the challenge on Monty, it’s not even debatable IMO. Amoo got the goal his and our performance had deserved, but as the game wore on his efforts to help out behind him became a bit more laboured and in that last 15 mins or so their full back got forward to overload us. Thats something I’ve said often about his game, his tendency to switch off and not put that extra in when we need him to also put a shift in going the other way. There’s no sweeping that aspect of his game under the carpet, I can see that he does that, you can clearly see the reaction it elicits from other players too. The performance on Tuesday saw him do that also not look interested going forward either and he’s done it a few times this season. We need to be careful not to label everything as racism when someone posts their opinion on his performances on here just because he’s black.  But what I do know is that when he’s on his game he can do something to change it, with an assist or a goal. He just needs to show it more. Overall it was a well deserved win considering the chances we created and the performances most of our players put in.

It’s funny listening to fans after games and sometimes on here too. It could have been 2-2 today...... If we hadn’t have got that penalty at Stevenage.. ...all ifs and buts..... looking at what could have happened instead of what did. Hopefully when we get a chance we take it and hopefully when the opposition get a chance our lads do their job, like Browny did yesterday or when he was beaten Gibbo got back on the line to do his job too. Based on yesterday I think I’d go with the same team at Swindon.

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9 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

There is always talk about creative players. It’s because they are the exciting ones. The ones you go to see. The ones that people put pressure on to make something happen. If they aren’t on it you tend to notice and they tend to get stick. It happens at every club up and down the country. Just the nature of the beast. 

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32 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

 

Really enjoyed yesterday’s game as I thought in places we showed what we can do with some good football and committed performances throughout. The changes were probably necessary and certainly Cullen makes a case to start next week, he had a good game. His touch is fantastic, some of the  passes he was pulling out of the air from over his shoulder were pure filth and it’s a pity he missed that chance as it would have been the icing on the cake for an excellent all round game. We absolutely murdered them down our right hand side, either Amoo went one on one and more often than not got a cross in, some of which were quality cut backs to the edge of the box. A cross can look bad when players haven’t made the right run, all you can do is put it in the right areas and hope someone makes the right run too. I thought Amoo did that in the first half. Other occasions saw Gibbo joined in to test their winger out to see if he’d go back with him. A couple of time he managed to find himself in that pocket of space he scored from in midweek. In terms of play coming in from our right both Atkinson and Worrall should have done better with their chances.  The left hand side wasnt as productive in that first half, not for lack of effort though. One thing we did really well was switch play with some great cross field balls to Amoo. Atkinson didn’t seem to be in the game as much as Joyce or Burgess in that half, but he was putting a lot of miles in tracking runners and trying to break the lines going forward. 

Second half possibly our left side came into the game more, Monty made some good runs, worrall got a few more crosses in too. We also played some nice stuff again down the right, playing keep ball at times.  Joyce was keeping it ticking over too. As I mentioned earlier the icing on Cullens cake should have been a goal, that was a great chance made by Worrall. Don’t know how he missed it. I’m certain that their lad should have seen red for the challenge on Monty, it’s not even debatable IMO. Amoo got the goal his and our performance had deserved, but as the game wore on his efforts to help out behind him became a bit more laboured and in that last 15 mins or so their full back got forward to overload us. Thats something I’ve said often about his game, his tendency to switch off and not put that extra in when we need him to also put a shift in going the other way. There’s no sweeping that aspect of his game under the carpet, I can see that he does that, you can clearly see the reaction it elicits from other players too. The performance on Tuesday saw him do that also not look interested going forward either and he’s done it a few times this season. We need to be careful not to label everything as racism when someone posts their opinion on his performances on here just because he’s black.  But what I do know is that when he’s on his game he can do something to change it, with an assist or a goal. He just needs to show it more. Overall it was a well deserved win considering the chances we created and the performances most of our players put in.

It’s funny listening to fans after games and sometimes on here too. It could have been 2-2 today...... If we hadn’t have got that penalty at Stevenage.. ...all ifs and buts..... looking at what could have happened instead of what did. Hopefully when we get a chance we take it and hopefully when the opposition get a chance our lads do their job, like Browny did yesterday or when he was beaten Gibbo got back on the line to do his job too. Based on yesterday I think I’d go with the same team at Swindon.

Spot on, great post.

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12 hours ago, Guitar Ray said:

Big shout out to Scott Brown, more great saves again today, the best of which, from the off side Angol(?), was so good it caused a mini celebration in the Bycars as if we’d scored, including several fans rushing down to the front of the stand. Can’t remember the last time I saw that.

Angol was offside so it wouldn't have counted!  Brown didn't know that though.

Edit.  Note to self - read to end of thread before posting!!

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2 hours ago, SFBT said:

You make some good points, reflecting that none of this stuff is simple.

It does frustrate me when players are singled out and, whatever they do, they're criticised.

Can't believe it's helpful.

 

It happens every season - some Vale fans pick on a player whom they blame for everything and to whom they give no credit whatever he does.  Last year it was Joyce, this year it's Amoo.  A while ago it was Constantine.  It's sheer ignorance I'm afraid. 

Amoo scored against Macc and scored yesterday - goals in consecutive home games.  He laid on a goal at Mansfield and Manchester City.  He brought the save of the game out of the Morecambe keeper but apparently he's done nowt recently.  He laid one on a plate for Atkinson in the first minute yesterday and only Jake Taylor has scored more league goals for us. 

I may vote for him as Player of the Season just to annoy some folk!!

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16 hours ago, TylerB said:

 

Don't know who it was earlier in the thread that said the game could have gone either way, but he watched a different game to myself. At 1-0 you're always a bit nervous going into the last 10 minutes no matter who you're playing, but today a win by two or three goals would have been fully deserved.

Cullen just needs a run of games and he'll be different gravy for us. We all love Tom Pope, but we're a better footballing side without him. That's not a slate on him as a footballer himself whatsoever, but his strengths mean that all too often we lump it forward early hoping he can make something of it against what is usually two 6 foot something lumps that have haggis for breakfast. There's a little bit of McPhee about Cullen although not on his level of course.

 

Secondly, imagine how good we'll be potentially when we have Taylor and Oyeleke back in the side? The below starting 11 excites me a lot, and I've not been the slightest bit excited for a Port Vale team for a long time now. Not saying that we should drop Joyce and not start with Pope some games... Horses for courses and all that. But for me this could be our strongest starting 11 on paper.

 

Brown

 

Gibbons

Smith

Legge

Montano

 

Oyeleke

Burgess

Taylor

 

Worrall

Amoo

Cullen

 

Which brings me to Scott Burgess. I expected nothing from him when he joined and though he would probably play a handful of games for the club in the Cups and probably be gone by January. He's like a Doug Loft in that he brings bags of energy to the midfield, and with Taylor our we really needed his legs today, and he more than played his part. Terrific stuff from him and the rest of the boys, and the gaffer himself.

 

Luke Joyce has to be in the team. He keeps us ticking, that midfield would get overrun. 

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5 hours ago, Biddulph_PV said:

I just can’t understand what the ref saw. He had a clear, unobstructed view about 5 yards away of their guy had both feet off the ground. It was certainly not a 50/50 ball as someone suggested. 

I know everyone feels they get hard done to by refs by I really don’t think we get the rub of the green with any of them, not that it mattered in the end, thankfully. 

It was like Schumacher and Platini back in the day. The ref saw it and still didn't give it. Unbeliveable. Generally I thought the officials were very poor yesterday.

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23 minutes ago, Portvale4 said:

Luke Joyce has to be in the team. He keeps us ticking, that midfield would get overrun. 

I think Manny could do the holding role perfectly well (if fit) and if required. He certainly wouldn't have got knocked off the ball like Joyce did 2-3 times yesterday which very nearly led to a goal(s)

Could be an option at home where the 3 of them could interchange at will. 

It will be a welcome dilemma for Askey should Manny actually stay fit. (and that's a big if) 

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If fit Manny will play get into the team. He is the only central midfielder currently at the club who can run WITH the ball and go past players. None of our central midfielders do that.

JA will find a way to get him in the team probably at the expense of Burgess when Taylor is fit.

With Cullen upfront and Manny in behind, Taylor pushing on arriving late in the box, supply from Amoo and Worrall I think it could be an exciting attack with more goals coming our way towards the end of the season.

 

 

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13 hours ago, toyahw said:

Why all the talk about Amoo? That is the point. Where is the talk about Worrall, or Atkinson, or Conlon, or Bennett or Joyce. It is obsessive. That is the point. 

I think I know why, and that is because he is noticeable for some reason. Let me think why? And a stereotype, he is lazy, despite this not being true,

Let me think, hmmm. It is because he his black. That is why. He is easy to spot, Easy to pick on. 

It reminds me a bit of Marcus Harness. I thought he did okay for us. But he got ripped apart on here, Jacko made a good point that he was "noiiceable" with his hair. Fair point and this is why he got picked on.

He's doing alright for himself these days. 

Now I am not saying that this is racism per se. But these lads are under an unreasonable amount of scrutiny. And unfairly singled out, white blokes can be crap and no one mentions it. If you are a black bloke you will get murdered.

And this observation goes from way back. Just hope it will change. I'm sure many will say this is a bit Snowflake. And mention a load of our black heroes. But I still think our black players get singled out as hero or zero and lazy. Which is not fair,

Rant over.

If Amoo played like that every week he wouldn’t be at Port Vale but playing regular Div 1 or Championship.

He is a Port Vale player and when he plays to his ability is an excellent player and rightly gets the plaudits and encouragement from the fans.

Bennett is white and accused of being lazy and not putting himself about enough but nobody can say it is racist to criticise him.

When will Askey wake up to the fact that Cullen cannot play up front on his own but is a support player to assist Pope or possibly Bennett..

 

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