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Match Thread: Morecambe v Port Vale


Fosse69

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2 minutes ago, Old fort said:

With respect, a thirty one year old Tom Pope was slightly more effective than a thirty five year old Tom Pope, which is what he'll be next season. 

You argue my point Old Fort.  Others are referring to the old Tom Pope, not our current No9.  

I am looking at it objectively, not through rose tinted spectacles.

i mean no disrespect to Tom and what he has achieved - that was the last decade and we need to move forward in the new one.

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2 minutes ago, Bald Eagle said:

You argue my point Old Fort.  Others are referring to the old Tom Pope, not our current No9.  

I am looking at it objectively, not through rose tinted spectacles.

i mean no disrespect to Tom and what he has achieved - that was the last decade and we need to move forward in the new one.

Time shows no respect to past achievements or reputations, neither does evolvment of the game, even at L2 level. 

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13 hours ago, PV1973 said:

In the end we arguably had enough chances in that second half to nick something, but we’d given ourselves a big uphill battle going 2 down. They adapted to the conditions a lot better than us, first half we were playing into the wind and instead of launching it we tried to keep it on the deck. But a lack of movement  and options for players on the ball meant that possession was meaningless. We keep doing the same things that weren’t working at all and it was frustrating to watch. I think I said I’m another thread than Conlon does the same job as Joyce and last night it was evident especially first half that IMO when they play together we become too predictable. It wasn’t too bad when we went for it but when it’s 4-3-3 you end up with 2 players sitting deeper trying to dictate play. Second half we were better, I thought Conlons chance before we actually scored was a good one that maybe he could have done better with. The decision to bring Pope off was the right one and I thought Cullen did well. But when you want someone to come on and inject some urgency and to rattle their centre halves then Bennett isn’t your man, again he was too easily beaten in the air and when he received it with his back to goal. I liked Morecambes Bennet song by the way.  Amoo was similar at times, didn’t look like he wanted to get at his man and spent a lot of time looking for fouls. He also gave Gibbons very little in the way of forward options.  Worrall had another quiet game, and maybe the fact he’s had 2 quiet games is a factor in us not firing on all cylinders? Monty was hot and cold, he’s too rash and gives away too many free kicks at times and also has a tendency to get too tight and is then rolled easily, if he’s to continues at left back then he needs to learn that side of the game. Legge had a poor first half, getting on the ball is not his game and we should have down something differently first half because that played in to Morecambes hands. Smith had another steady game and kept on battling. But my MOM was Gibbo, defended well, kept going down that right hand side, scored a fantastic goal and looked like he wanted to be there too, like it meant something. It’s a pity that our fringe players aren’t doing enough to force their way in because I think that we need to freshen it up a touch and some possibly players need a rocket up their arse to go out and do it more.

Your comments about the midfield are spot on. From the games I've seen this season, there's too little movement and far too often limited options for the player on the ball, with the inevitable result that it's lofted towards Pope who has the thankless task of trying to do something with it while being double-marked. We are also physically small by comparison to most L2 teams and get bullied off the ball - this paid off for Conlon on Saturday when he was bundled over for the penalty but all game he'd been physically bullied off the ball. If we had the luxury of regularly playing a midfield of Joyce, Oyeleke and Taylor, we would be a match for most L2 teams but these last two games have shown how limited the squad is. At present, the missing ingredients are creativity, passing, movement and physical presence.

Personally I don't think making signings now would necessarily boost what limited chances we have of making the play offs. Askey would probably be better to wait until the summer when we need at least a left back, two midfield players, one or more strikers and another centre half. With a bit of luck, Campbell-Gordon is going to be another Gibbo, but it's probably a bit early for him. It's going to be a busy summer.

 

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Some of our fans don’t want patient football. Last night there were a number of fans yelling at players because they played the ball square. I know we were pants last night but hoofing the ball long into that gale blowing against us would have been madness. Let’s see what happens on Saturday before consigning this season to the dustbin. 

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8 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Some of our fans don’t want patient football. Last night there were a number of fans yelling at players because they played the ball square. I know we were pants last night but hoofing the ball long into that gale blowing against us would have been madness. Let’s see what happens on Saturday before consigning this season to the dustbin. 

I heard it at the Eitihad, fans urging the  long ball, hump it up and then guess what..... watch it come straight back.

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1 minute ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Pope scored our only goal of the game in front of 50000+ people against a team which cost £200 million and some on here are questioning his ability? Are you having a laugh?

It was a great moment for us all and one that we'll remember, just like so many of Tom's other goals this season and so I'm expecting,  if nothing else, that on the back of that and with 19 games to go, that Tom should comfortably reach 18-20 goals by the end of the season. 

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16 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Pope scored our only goal of the game in front of 50000+ people against a team which cost £200 million and some on here are questioning his ability? Are you having a laugh?

Come on now, mate. No one is saying he's rubbish, just he shouldn't be our main striker.

He's played 24 games against League 2 opposition and only scored 4 times, 2 of them penalties, the other 2 in the same game against ten men. He's yet to score a non-penalty goal against 11 men. He's played 62 in the last 2 seasons and score 15, 6 of them penalties.

You can't argue 'he scored against Man City' and then dismiss 'he's failed to score against the worst professional teams in the country, apart from penalties, in 23 of his 24 games'. It works both ways.

By the same logic, Amoo set up Pope with a pearl of a cross in front of 50000+ people against a team which cost £200 milion and some on here are questioning his ability as a winger? Are you having a laugh?

Alas, because Amoo is far from a legend people have the rationality to accept he's been below par in the league, as has Pope, unfortunately.

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48 minutes ago, Old fort said:

It was a great moment for us all and one that we'll remember, just like so many of Tom's other goals this season and so I'm expecting,  if nothing else, that on the back of that and with 19 games to go, that Tom should comfortably reach 18-20 goals by the end of the season. 

No one disputes it was a great goal at the Etihad, but as they say one swallow does not  make a summer.  I am not saying he has no part to play, but with his strike rate from open play over the last 2 years+ It makes you18-20 goal forecast frankly ridiculous, unless we win a penalty every other game!

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8 hours ago, Joe B said:

Banging on about 2 up top is getting tiring.

Once again we're into that age-old debate;

When Pope is good; up the Pope, he is class!

When Pope is bad; he needs feeding! Not his fault.

Our chance creation isn't the best but I find it hard to rationalise that a forward with possible the best winger in the league in David Worrall (who is top 5 for assists and crosses this year), and a good winger (on his day) in Amoo who recently went on a run of scoring and assisting every week for 4/5 games, isn't being fed. He's unlikely to get much better wingers at this level, and then add in two attacking fullbacks who can put a ball in in Gibbo and Monty.

Pope's a legend but we can't excuse 2 open play goals in 24 with a lot of our play being predicated down the wings. Always a place for him at the Vale but a new starting striker is needed. 433 has done a good job in making us tough to beat and we can't throw it all out of the window because Pope doesn't suit it.

Oh Joe

Have to disagree entirely. Worrall the best winger in the league .? I agree he is far better than his previous seasons, he works his socks off, most games but he is not a goal scorer, he is not a prolific crosser of a ball and he hardly ever takes a man on out wide to pull the ball back across goal. 

Amoo wow, if he had half the work ethic of Worrall he would be far better. He can take a man on out wide when he wants to. He has terrific pace when he decides to use it. No where near being a good winger and is only chosen each week because we have poor other choices in the squad.

Our poor scoring record is due more to the 2 wide men and 3 midfield men not offering anywhere near enough goals rather than the lone target man not scoring goals.

Lone target man means wide men must tuck inside with Pope at every opportunity.             Loan target man means 2 midfield players of the  3 must push forward i to the box at every opportunity. Taylor apart we have failed in these positions.

This is Askeys big failing to me. He has signed plenty of players in these positions but there are not enough goals in them to reach the play offs.

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2 hours ago, Bald Eagle said:

Disagree. I was not comparing them as players, I was pointing out that many are happy to overlook Tom’s tangible contribution (games in which he has scored) because he is Tom.

we have had good and bad spells with both leading the line - neither will be the mainstay of a promotion chasing team.

Putting aside the number of goals our forwards have scored, I’ve seen enough of Bennett this season to come to the opinion that outside of his handful of goals he offers very little else to the team that a lone forward should. Pope is head and shoulders above him in that regard IMO. 

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