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Depth in the squad.


Playa Amodores

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33 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Surely playing games, any games, is better than sitting on the bench with your match fitness diminishing?

You’d think so, that’s if it was a bit sharper standard jean. 

I’m not convinced though, that playing a reserve game once a fortnight against youth team lads is going to get them sharp enough for a first team game. I’ve had a conversation with few coaches at Vale and they’ve basically said the same. Its more a youth league now to give the scholars extra game time. 
 

didnt we win the reserve league last season? We had a strong squad it was virtually all senior pros, but when they played first team we didn’t look any better or sharper. 

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The whole meaningfull structure of reserve team football has been dismantled,  thanks again in large part to the Premiership amassing such huge squads then farming the surplus players out on loan for other clubs to take care of on season long loans. The old Football Combination leagues had great quality because they were proper reserve teams, which  was always sprinkled with a number of first teamers. There was always an emphasis on young players, but they had to mature quickly due to mix of older/hardened professionals. I'm not saying that it was as good as first team football,  but we've all become very aware of u23 and academy teams and the cotton wool culture that it's manifested First team football is now referred to as "mans football" so it should be no surprise that players often find it a struggle to step up to the first team when most of their football playing time has been in the softer environment of u23 level. This is especially highlighted with league 1 and 2 due to the nature of the extra physicality.and where the ultra technical stuff that we witnessed against Man City, will never filter down. 

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We touched on this before but we did used to play in the Cheshire league and Midland league ( I think it was) many moons ago. Maybe 40-46 games a season too. Not dissimilar to the first team. Games were played at Vale Park and it was fairly competitive from memory. I guess the likes of Lye Town, Chorley and Hyde loved playing at a league club's ground and even more liked to beat us! Those days have forever gone but at least the reserves got plenty of games and usually played the same formation as the first team. It seemed to keep them fit and they played a lot.

No doubt there are pros and cons as there are with every system but it doesn't surprise me at all when a player who has only appeared maybe 2-3 times in the first team since August gets thrown in at the deep end and can't perform. It takes 4-5 games to get up to match sharpness and speed, hence a lengthy pre-season every summer. You really can't expect the likes of Brisley, Archer, Evans and so on to come in and set the game alight. 

That's the problem we have. What the solution is I simply don't know because only the regular XI will be fully up to speed if the reserves only play one game a month.

Answers on a postcard to J. Askey, c/o Vale Park, Burslem.

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Vale used to have a Reserve team and an A and a B team.

Did the Vale Reserve team play in a league called the "District League or Northern District League" and did the A and B teams play in the Cheshire League and Midland Intermediate "A" League, all the results and 3 leagues were published regularly in the Sentinel and sometimes in Vale programmes.

Pretty sure the 1st and 2nd Division Reserve teams played in the Central League.

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To swap out Rawlinson, a player who never put a foot wrong without being spectacular, for Kennedy and Brisley in hindsight looks mad. Kennedy has now been sent back to the team he came from he's that bad, and Brisley looked like he had never kicked a football before on Tuesday.

We have no real left back, poor options (beyond first team) at cb, rb and winger.

I think the strikers will come good, at different stages all year we have seen form from each of Bennett, Cullen and Popey. We are certainly stronger than we have been for years in that position, but I dont know whether that says more about our current crop or previous years players.

Hopefully Tuesday was an eye-opener for JA.

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3 hours ago, Walka003 said:

To swap out Rawlinson, a player who never put a foot wrong without being spectacular, for Kennedy and Brisley in hindsight looks mad. Kennedy has now been sent back to the team he came from he's that bad, and Brisley looked like he had never kicked a football before on Tuesday.

We have no real left back, poor options (beyond first team) at cb, rb and winger.

I think the strikers will come good, at different stages all year we have seen form from each of Bennett, Cullen and Popey. We are certainly stronger than we have been for years in that position, but I dont know whether that says more about our current crop or previous years players.

Hopefully Tuesday was an eye-opener for JA.
 

I’m led to believe that Rawlinson’s departure wasn’t just a footballing decision but that may be wrong.  I don’t think Brisley is as bad as he looked in Tuesday. 

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It is impossible to judge how good or otherwise our squad players are as they never get any game time. We are not alone in this and surely the clubs can get together and sort something out.

The football league trophy has just become a competition for match practice. 

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Feel the squad is not as strong as we all first thought it was and a lot of the players let the fans, manager, owners and more importantly themselves down on tuesday.

Thought tuesday's game was a very winnable game against Salford who also made 7 changes and had not won this year - cue Vale playing them and changing it due to our generosity to clubs below us on a bad run.  However, that game just showed certain players could not motivate themselves to push for a regular place and why they are after thoughts for making a playing squad.

Is this due to Vale pulling out of the reserves league and then having to rely on other teams actually playing us,  Then when they do, they put out their 18-21 yr old players and players coming back from injury, so our players don't get a proper work out.  Hopefully this is being reviewed by JA and Co as a possible reason players seem off key.  

Are players not actually motivated to try and break into the first team playing squad or just think why bother - I will just do the bare minimum and get paid.  I don't think it is this, well hope it is not this and the players are trying their best.

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I’m led to believe that Rawlinson’s departure wasn’t just a footballing decision but that may be wrong.  I don’t think Brisley is as bad as he looked in Tuesday. 
If that's the case then fair enough we don't want those kind of players in the dressing room. What concerns me is Notts County considered him to be a better option to have than Brisley, and they are in the league below.
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I agree with a lit of what's been said on this subject. What we can't accept any longer is the rather tired and worn excuse of inconsistency. I get that you will get inconsistency at this level, but that line is used too often to defend poor performances  Let's be honest enough to recognise that it goes beyond that and comes down to basic lack of quality and ability displayed by a significant number of the squad and that means that there isn't going to be a quick fix. 

The fact that we've done so well so far this season is clearly down to the difference that John Askey and Dave Kevan have made and the notable performances of five or six players. Go beyond that and the footballing nous is starkly lacking. 

Many may disagree that we're not geared up for promotion,  even if we achieved it via the play offs, but if I cad a crystal ball,  I would prefer to sign the necessary players in the summer so that we could give it a real go next season, with much stronger foundations to progress , because right now I believe that it would be more likely that we wouldn't survive in L1 next season which would feel like a real kick in the whatsits, with people saying "here we go again"

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