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2019/2020 season striker stats


philmpv

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So, I've had a bit of time today and decided to analyse in a little more detail our striker stats for the season given the ongoing debate re Pope/Bennett/Cullen. I've purposely left Archer out as he hasn't had anywhere near enough game time to produce a reliable outcome.

 

Pope - 1157 minutes on the pitch (not including injury time, which I really can't be bothered to work out - applies for all). He personally has scored 6 goals in those minutes. The team as a whole has scored 17 goals in the same minutes. So that's an average of a team goal every 68.06 minutes with Pope on the pitch.His personal ratio is a goal every 192 minutes (so just over 1 in 2)

 

Bennett - 1328 minutes on the pitch. He personally has scored 5 goals. Team goals as a whole in those minutes is 21. So team average of a goal every 63.24 minutes with Bennett on the pitch. His personal ratio is a goal every 265 minutes (so nearly 1 in 3).

 

Cullen - 613 minutes on the pitch. He personally has scored 5 goals. Team goals as a whole in those minutes is 11. So team average of a goal every 55.73 minutes with Cullen on the pitch. His personal ratio is a goal every 122 minutes.

 

The most striking additional thing I noticed when going through the games is that, of Jake Taylor's 6 goals, 5 have come when Pope isn't on the pitch!

 

Make of the above what you will, but I certainly think that it demonstrates, if nothing else, that we score more goals, on average, when Pope is not on the pitch. This suggests a better team opportunity to score when Pope isn't playing, and a more Pope central approach when he is (i.e. the majority of our goals when Pope is playing come from repeated attempts to 'feed the Pope', rather than a wider team effort). 

 

Not having a pop as such, but I'm just sick of the Pope must play even when he doesn't score blah blah blah arguments. 

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Pope is an odd one and does seem more effective as an impact sub, but on the flip side I think Bennett is ok at home but away struggles to hold up play which is where Pope is best suited...

I'd be more leaning towards Bennett at home and Pope away.. Cullen if fit is a great option to have and although can do nothing for long periods then finds the net... he is a pure goal scorer and shame if he isn't full fit.

This thread however is refreshing to look at an analyse rather than having Miller, Elliott and Quigley fighting it out with Pope.

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You can prove anything you like with stats!  40% of Cullen's goals came against Newcastle U21s for example.  33% of Taylor's goals have been scored in the EFL trophy in which Pope doesn't play anyway.  The only league game in which we have won when Taylor scored was when Pope was on the pitch at Crewe.

None of that makes any difference to Askey's team selection though so is meaningless.

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All well and good but raw stats never tell the whole story.

Also, I’d suggest we’d have seen a different game, and probable outcome, on Saturday had Pope not started.  He occupied their two big central defenders, held the ball up, linked up well with other players and generally did everything bar score.  He was even closing down, chasing along their back line, more successfully than in some games.

I’m not knocking Bennett or Cullen but Askey was spot with his selection on on Saturday.  The main problem is that nobody looks likely to hit a vein of form and score 20+ goals.

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I don’t think anything is going to convince me that we are a better team with Bennett on the pitch. I do not like to see a centre forward constantly bullied, not going in for headers, not giving a centre half a hard time, not being afraid to put his body on the line when that ball goes into the box, not being able to hold the ball, throwing himself on the floor and blaming everyone else when things constantly go against him (yes I know Pope does that too). I don’t think he has the desire that I want to see. I know players play in different ways but as a lone target man I’m not convinced by him at all. Just my opinion. 

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I am not a fan of Bennett and have said so many times on here, only to be slated. I thought along time ago he offered nothing apart from chasing the the ball across the opposition back four when they pass it around. He won’t challenge for balls and stands around watching instead of getting stuck in and making a nuisance of himself. I used to get thrown at me, was he’s our top scorer and he’ll score 20 goals this season. I really wished that he would prove me wrong, but I don’t think he will. Before we played Carlisle I checked out the Cumbrians forum and had to agree with everything they’d said about Richie, sorry about that.

Pope didn’t score when we played at Crewe, but he changed the game, can anyone say he didn’t offer us anything that wasn’t positive, the whole teams confidence improved. I wasn’t happy with his performance against Walsall and I feel sometimes he let’s himself be bullied, which then leads to him becoming frustrated,which affects his game. It seems a league where every team has at least three tall defenders if not four, so the long ball won’t work all the time and I think we’ve realised that by playing through the midfield with Worrall popping up all over the pitch and on Saturday I saw Amoo supplying crosses from the right wing position.

I’m still  waiting for Archer to get a start, I don’t know if he’s still carrying an injury or not. Both Archer and Cullen need game time and that is something that only JA can sort out. 
 

 

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14 minutes ago, PV1973 said:

At this stage of the season I really wonder if we will ever see Archer make a meaningful contribution. 

You might be right as he only got a one year contract. I was really impressed when he played for Bury against us. It was on the strength of that performance that JA signed him.

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I've been fascinated by the striker discussions all season long.

I think Askey realises that he has a top striker in Pope and continues to look for best ways to accommodate him in the team.

By contrast, Bennett is more suited to his preferred 433, as he is more mobile.

I also like the fact that he doesn't bother with the physical battles with centre halves. Preferring to use his energy more constructively.

However, Pope is a good link player when used in that way.

Both need energy around them, which we have with Taylor, Burgess and the four wide men, including full backs.

I don't know how it will pan out. I suspect Pope will be given a good run to see if he can establish himself.

But I also hope that they can find a way to get the best out of Bennett.

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I can only comment on what I have seen this season. Yes Bennett has contributed with a couple of vital goals but that apart he has done very little yes he runs around a lot but never looks like stealing the ball and so his energy is a waste. For a big lad his heading ability is very disappointing.

 When Pope is on the pitch the defence know that unlike when Bennett is on that they are in for a hard time and most only cope with the help of incompetent  referees who never seem to give Tom any protection but are quick to blow up if he gives a little back.

 Also we have seen a marked difference when ever Popey has come off the bench. The team as a whole seem to be invigorated and the opposition's central defenders come under pressure.

 If you were to ask opponents who they would rather face it would be Bennett all day long quite simply because apart from a decent left foot he offers very little else.

 In regard to Cullen he should feature more as a second striker but never as a lone front man because he lacks height and isn't blessed with lightning fast pace which could scare defenders.

 To get the very best from Tom he needs an attacking partner because when he bashed in 33 goals a few years ago he had Louis Dodds, Williamson and then Hughsey  to help him with the workload. I realise many will sneer at the mention of Super Louis's name but take a look just how prolific the partnership was in the early days of our promotion season before Louis got pushed deeper into midfield and Ben Williamson often partnered the Pope. Though this wasn't the 'dream ticket' in my opinion because Ben wasn't a natural finisher despite having good pace. This period was when Tom's goals dried up because he went 11 games without scoring until Mr Hughes came onto the scene and he along with Tom dragged us over the line with a further 23 goals coming from this potent pairing I believe.

  Quite simply playing with a lone striker doesn't really work unless you are blessed with top attack minded midfield players. So perhaps a midfield partnership of Manny when fit and Jake Taylor if we can keep hold of him could help a lone striker and that lone striker should be Tom Pope all day long.

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5 hours ago, old sage said:

I can only comment on what I have seen this season. Yes Bennett has contributed with a couple of vital goals but that apart he has done very little yes he runs around a lot but never looks like stealing the ball and so his energy is a waste. For a big lad his heading ability is very disappointing.

 When Pope is on the pitch the defence know that unlike when Bennett is on that they are in for a hard time and most only cope with the help of incompetent  referees who never seem to give Tom any protection but are quick to blow up if he gives a little back.

 Also we have seen a marked difference when ever Popey has come off the bench. The team as a whole seem to be invigorated and the opposition's central defenders come under pressure.

 If you were to ask opponents who they would rather face it would be Bennett all day long quite simply because apart from a decent left foot he offers very little else.

 In regard to Cullen he should feature more as a second striker but never as a lone front man because he lacks height and isn't blessed with lightning fast pace which could scare defenders.

 To get the very best from Tom he needs an attacking partner because when he bashed in 33 goals a few years ago he had Louis Dodds, Williamson and then Hughsey  to help him with the workload. I realise many will sneer at the mention of Super Louis's name but take a look just how prolific the partnership was in the early days of our promotion season before Louis got pushed deeper into midfield and Ben Williamson often partnered the Pope. Though this wasn't the 'dream ticket' in my opinion because Ben wasn't a natural finisher despite having good pace. This period was when Tom's goals dried up because he went 11 games without scoring until Mr Hughes came onto the scene and he along with Tom dragged us over the line with a further 23 goals coming from this potent pairing I believe.

  Quite simply playing with a lone striker doesn't really work unless you are blessed with top attack minded midfield players. So perhaps a midfield partnership of Manny when fit and Jake Taylor if we can keep hold of him could help a lone striker and that lone striker should be Tom Pope all day long.

I think that you are being harsh on Bennett, who contributes far more than simply running around, although that has been a part of his contribution.

He puts defenders under pressure and  wears them down, allowing Pope to strut his stuff late in the game.

He has a very good first touch.

I'm not advocating either player.

However, both do bring something to the table.

I'd like to see that acknowledged, rather than writing one of them off.

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17 hours ago, old sage said:

Im not writing Bennett off but just feel that Pope is by far the more superior and effective frontman.

There isn't the perfect centreforward playing at this level. Pope is possibly the best old fashioned player in that position playing in this league. Bennett is far better at dragging centrehalves out to parts of the pitch they don't want to be in and creating space for other players to get into. Not sure anyone can win an argument about who is the better player as it comes down to a matter of personal preference about what you value most highly in that position. 

I thought Bennett should have been given a run during the last 10 minutes on Saturday as Pope looked tired at the end and that little bit extra mobility could have made a difference. 

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3 hours ago, Rampant Zebra said:

At the age of 28 Bennett has scored 19 league goals....

Pope was 27 at the start of the 2012/15 season with a dreadful goals per game ratio and not an awful lot more goals the Bennett has. Its what someone is going to do that is important.  Pope has only scored 15 or more league goals on 2 occasions, he averages about 10 goals a season. 

I'm in no way advocating Bennett or Pope as I see what both bring to the side. But overall Pope isn't a prolific goal scorer, it's his general play holding up the ball which has made him a valuable player for 12 of his 14 seasons as a professional. 

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34 minutes ago, Rampant Zebra said:

Pope scored 17 league goals for Crwho? as a trainee..

Pope was never a trainee at Crewe they took a punt on him from Biddulph, having had him in their Academy as a youngster. He then had 2 unproductive years at Rotherham and 2 at Vale; in terms of goals. There are facts and fiction. At the age of 27 Pope had scored 29 league goals in 163 games. There was nothing to suggest he was going to have the season he had and OVF was full of people saying he was dreadful. I got slated for my prediction he would score 15 goals just before the season started; but the rest became history.

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