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1 hour ago, Howjy04 said:

Wrong-Dailey says she would invite Jez onto her cabinetemoji50.png.2 left,Smarmer and Nandy Pandy.

You couldn't make it up could you?  Labour's left wing although understandably trying to cling on to control of the party, must have a collective brain-fade, as they clearly still don't understand why they lost the last two elections!!!

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On 12/02/2020 at 20:43, Regal Beagle said:

Rob, come on now, this is not the "right wing press" this is Ruth Smeeth, a former Labour MP who has been publically calling this out for years.

 

There is absolutely zero evidence that the tories are "as bad as" or worse, and in fact, very little evidence in general.

 

There is an absolute plethora of evidence which shows the rampant anti-semitism in the labour party however, most of it does not originate from the "right wing" but from labour whistleblowers.

 

This is a serious problem and is a huge reason why they got trounced. The british public simply don't like racist bigots.

Not only was there a plethoraof evidence of anti-semitism in their party, but it also graphically highlighted and showed up the sheer lack of any competent leadership from the top of the party!

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On 20/02/2020 at 11:41, Bycarsbill said:

You couldn't make it up could you?  Labour's left wing although understandably trying to cling on to control of the party, must have a collective brain-fade, as they clearly still don't understand why they lost the last two elections!!!

You couldn't make it up could you. The Labour Party spokesman on Andrew Marr said this morning if it wasn't for Brexit, we could have won the election. I do wonder if KS can change the party, if that is their mindset.

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Tend to agree.

For me only KS has the gravitas, experience and intelligence to lead an effective opposition but the problem in my view is that Labour has been taken over by the left wing to a large extent and they won't want to give up their influence. I've always subscribed to the view that (1) a centre left party is the way to go in this country now and (2) we need to change the electoral system to a form of PR that better reflects the votes of the electorate.

I would love to see a broad left/centre coalition, including the Greens, working together to counteract this very right wing government, to hold it's feet to the fire, and to provide a realistic alternative. As it is they are getting away with (blue) murder. But their lies and deception is going largely unchallenged because we currently have no effective opposition.

But politics is a funny old game. You thought Labour was dead in the water in the eighties but Blair won election after election and it was the Tories then who struggled, so things can change quickly.

I would expect this government to implode sooner or later - as all governments do. But it will also be quite interesting to see if the Tories stick with their hard right policies and inclinations or try and pull back more towards the centre.

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2 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Tend to agree.

For me only KS has the gravitas, experience and intelligence to lead an effective opposition but the problem in my view is that Labour has been taken over by the left wing to a large extent and they won't want to give up their influence. I've always subscribed to the view that (1) a centre left party is the way to go in this country now and (2) we need to change the electoral system to a form of PR that better reflects the votes of the electorate.

I would love to see a broad left/centre coalition, including the Greens, working together to counteract this very right wing government, to hold it's feet to the fire, and to provide a realistic alternative. As it is they are getting away with (blue) murder. But their lies and deception is going largely unchallenged because we currently have no effective opposition.

But politics is a funny old game. You thought Labour was dead in the water in the eighties but Blair won election after election and it was the Tories then who struggled, so things can change quickly.

I would expect this government to implode sooner or later - as all governments do. But it will also be quite interesting to see if the Tories stick with their hard right policies and inclinations or try and pull back more towards the centre.

If you had PR you would get a mish mash of everything in a coalition not everyone against the Tories as opposition..... everything put forward would be like brexit, 4 years and no movement.... the larger parties would be buying off the minnows with concessions that would screw their own policies and we get gridlock and chaos. 

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Germany hasn't done too badly with PR. 

We can pick and choose our examples - but regardless of who is in power we currently have governments that can steamroller through any legislation they like, based on as little as 40% of the popular vote. I think we mentioned this before but wasn't the 45 Labour admin the only one that got over 50% of the vote? The current system also disenfranchises voters in "safe" seats of all colours and does not reflect the total number of votes cast for parties. Is it any wonder 20+ million people never bother to vote?

There are pros and cons. I accept that. But this confrontational system in which more people collectively vote against a government than for it is outdated and run its course. Most other westernised democracies have a form of PR. But there is no ideal situation, I agree.

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25 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Tend to agree.

For me only KS has the gravitas, experience and intelligence to lead an effective opposition but the problem in my view is that Labour has been taken over by the left wing to a large extent and they won't want to give up their influence. I've always subscribed to the view that (1) a centre left party is the way to go in this country now and (2) we need to change the electoral system to a form of PR that better reflects the votes of the electorate.

I would love to see a broad left/centre coalition, including the Greens, working together to counteract this very right wing government, to hold it's feet to the fire, and to provide a realistic alternative. As it is they are getting away with (blue) murder. But their lies and deception is going largely unchallenged because we currently have no effective opposition.

But politics is a funny old game. You thought Labour was dead in the water in the eighties but Blair won election after election and it was the Tories then who struggled, so things can change quickly.

I would expect this government to implode sooner or later - as all governments do. But it will also be quite interesting to see if the Tories stick with their hard right policies and inclinations or try and pull back more towards the centre.

Blair was an oddity. He was a Labour politician who wanted to win power rather than stand shouting in opposition. 

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If you have more than 2 parties there is always the possibility of the winner getting less than 50% of the vote...... the more parties the greater the likelihood. 

If you total all the various candidates I'm surprised any winner gets over 33%.

The biggest problem for me is if a party got enough votes to get say 5 seats under PR but actually won none...... where would they represent?..... which constituencies would they be parachuted into.

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3 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Blair was an oddity. He was a Labour politician who wanted to win power rather than stand shouting in opposition. 

He was a blue snake with a red rose...... but he got elected

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2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You couldn't make it up could you. The Labour Party spokesman on Andrew Marr said this morning if it wasn't for Brexit, we could have won the election. I do wonder if KS can change the party, if that is their mindset.

That was Richard Burgon and he wants to be the deputy leader--he's an absolute plonker!!

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Tend to agree.

For me only KS has the gravitas, experience and intelligence to lead an effective opposition but the problem in my view is that Labour has been taken over by the left wing to a large extent and they won't want to give up their influence. I've always subscribed to the view that (1) a centre left party is the way to go in this country now and (2) we need to change the electoral system to a form of PR that better reflects the votes of the electorate.

I would love to see a broad left/centre coalition, including the Greens, working together to counteract this very right wing government, to hold it's feet to the fire, and to provide a realistic alternative. As it is they are getting away with (blue) murder. But their lies and deception is going largely unchallenged because we currently have no effective opposition.

But politics is a funny old game. You thought Labour was dead in the water in the eighties but Blair won election after election and it was the Tories then who struggled, so things can change quickly.

I would expect this government to implode sooner or later - as all governments do. But it will also be quite interesting to see if the Tories stick with their hard right policies and inclinations or try and pull back more towards the centre.

1. How do you reconcile your claim that you want PR with the fact that you've spent 3-4 years calling over half of the electorate too racist and stupid to be trusted with a vote?

 

2. I'll ask for the millionth time, what is your understanding of "very right wing" and how does that apply to this tory Government?

It seems weird that this "very right wing" Government defied all predictions in December by convincing traditionally staunch labour voters to vote for them. It's almost as if this is actually quite a central tory Government?

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It seems kier starmer gets the job by a big majority.

Didn't he devise Labour's brexit policy?..... sit on the fence and hope for the best?

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Well well well,

 

A white, male, knight of the realm is who labour have chosen to represent the left wing and allegedly the working class.

 

A socialist Sir. Pretty funny really. 

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Good luck to him, hopefully build a party that can be a sensible alternative to the Conservatives and good riddance to Corbyn, don’t think I’ve hated a politician as much as that prick. 

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22 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Well well well,

 

A white, male, knight of the realm is who labour have chosen to represent the left wing and allegedly the working class.

 

A socialist Sir. Pretty funny really. 

The son of a toolmaker who became a human rights lawyer and removed the fact that he was a millionaire from Wikipedia to help him win this leadership vote.

 

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43 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

Well well well,

 

A white, male, knight of the realm is who labour have chosen to represent the left wing and allegedly the working class.

 

A socialist Sir. Pretty funny really. 

I assumed you'd be against the identity politics nonsense that goes with 'white male' and 'left wing people have to be working class". Apparently not. Why would him being white, a man, and a knight prevent him from representing the working class?

Starmer is an established, successful public servant who seems eminently qualified to lead a political party.

I also fail to see why being a socialist would prevent him from being recognised by the Queen for his service to law and order. Are only Tories allowed to be honoured? Is he not allowed to be a socialist and have respect for his monarch, and therefore accept honours when bestowed on him?

I'm not his biggest fan and have no real affiliation with Labour any more, just found this comment a bit bad.

 

Edited by Joe B

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On 01/03/2020 at 11:53, Bycarsbill said:

That was Richard Burgon and he wants to be the deputy leader--he's an absolute plonker!!

Angela Rayner replaces Tom Watson as deputy-leader.

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A man of intellect and decency, just what the country needs. Good luck to Keir, I hope and believe he can bring both party and the country together.   

I see Boris wants a meeting with him, my tip is make it via zoom, typical tory dirty tricks! 

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

Well well well,

 

A white, male, knight of the realm is who labour have chosen to represent the left wing and allegedly the working class.

 

A socialist Sir. Pretty funny really. 

I am not a supporter of the Labour party. From your post above you seem to be against his appointment because of the following:

1. His gender

2. His ethnicity

3. His social background

4. His professional achievements which lead to his appearance on the honours list.

I think any reasonable person reading this can determine the value of your post...……...Sir

 

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