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Labour leadership

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31 minutes ago, bobvale said:

i am going to try and stoop posting here for a while now. my son told me it would be nice to talk politics with other vale fans and while some people are interesting and decent, to many are to interested in not discussing but just ignoring the point and telling lies around and i find this very frustrating and not any thing i enjoy. what a shame. i think this country is in a very sad place at the moment and do not see it getting any better under the torys. i hope that they change there minds and decide to try and help the enviroment as we are in big trouble without making big changes. i wish that boris Johnson decides to help the poor and the homeless but i do not think he even cares about those people. i hope that all these many racist people joining his party makes him wake up and smell the coffee but again i do not think he cares. i would add that i also hope we beat man city but at the moment i do not think that football is as important as the state of the world i will soon leave behind and that makes me very sad and i am sad that people on here seem to treat it like it is one big game and that winning an arguement is more important than looking after each other and the planet. 

You are not talking politics you are talking personalities.

Football is a much better representation of real life than politics, one is a game millions love the other is a game only politicians love but affects millions.

The only thing jezza said he represented, for the many not the few, came back to bite him in reverse...... Labour represent the few not the many.

Get rid of jezza and his left wing support and start representing the people who built Labour.

More government control isn't the answer...... neither is no control.

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this is how it goes isn't it. I actually logged off and will do again in a few seconds. but i can not let the complete nonesense and lies posted above stand.

You all lie. All the time.

every single point in regal begal first response is lies. Every single one. his post above about racist and far right people" joing labour in numbers that eclipse britains firsts membership" is an out right lie. i could have perhaps ignored it but when he writes on his post that he is writing facts i feel i have to log on and repeat... you are telling lies. just because you write that it is a fact it does not make it one. it is lies. it is so tyring trying to confront lies like regal beagals and bycarsbills and geosnames and as much as i would like to talk about politics i find that i am not doing that but pointing out lie after lie. and then others say more lies. it is like playing tennis against 5 people who all have a ball.

regal beagles posts is full of lies.

i wonder if geosname will ever attack those. i don't think so. logging off again now.

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27 minutes ago, bobvale said:

when i say you all lie, i mean people like regal beagale and bycarsbill, not the kind decent people on here . goodbye.

Bob, just for info, there is an “ignore” function on this forum. You can choose to ignore certain posters which means their messages are hidden from you unless someone quotes them. I’ve had The Beagle on ignore for months and found life is much more pleasant as a result!!

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1 hour ago, bobvale said:

this is how it goes isn't it. I actually logged off and will do again in a few seconds. but i can not let the complete nonesense and lies posted above stand.

You all lie. All the time.

every single point in regal begal first response is lies. Every single one. his post above about racist and far right people" joing labour in numbers that eclipse britains firsts membership" is an out right lie. i could have perhaps ignored it but when he writes on his post that he is writing facts i feel i have to log on and repeat... you are telling lies. just because you write that it is a fact it does not make it one. it is lies. it is so tyring trying to confront lies like regal beagals and bycarsbills and geosnames and as much as i would like to talk about politics i find that i am not doing that but pointing out lie after lie. and then others say more lies. it is like playing tennis against 5 people who all have a ball.

regal beagles posts is full of lies.

i wonder if geosname will ever attack those. i don't think so. logging off again now.

I'm not attacking you..... I'm attacking your posts, your opinion..... I'm attacking Labour's failure to represent the people who created it and stood by it when they got very little in return, the people who need it.

There is little need to attack the Tories, they may be riding the wave at the moment but within 12 months they will once again be in self destruct mode and attacking each other..... if they are not they will reign for a long time, but I doubt the initial euphoria will last..... after the budget and reshuffle when newbies have settled in.

The country needs a strong opposition no matter who is in power.

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38 minutes ago, geosname said:

I'm not attacking you..... I'm attacking your posts, your opinion..... I'm attacking Labour's failure to represent the people who created it and stood by it when they got very little in return, the people who need it.

There is little need to attack the Tories, they may be riding the wave at the moment but within 12 months they will once again be in self destruct mode and attacking each other..... if they are not they will reign for a long time, but I doubt the initial euphoria will last..... after the budget and reshuffle when newbies have settled in.

The country needs a strong opposition no matter who is in power.

The question is, what is Labour for? The socialist ideals for which the party was founded are as relevant now as they were in 1900.

The difference is that society at large is a bit clearer as to how those ideals could be achieved. It's not about mass government control of industry any more as other levers can be employed effectively to control how companies operate. There may still be a case for nationalisation in some cases but generally it's no longer necessary - and that's what Labour failed to recognise. That ship has sailed.

It's anybody's guess how Labour will change in the wake of the election defeat but it's the difference between their being an effective opposition with a chance of winning in 2024 or not.

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51 minutes ago, Heatwave said:

The question is, what is Labour for? The socialist ideals for which the party was founded are as relevant now as they were in 1900.

The difference is that society at large is a bit clearer as to how those ideals could be achieved. It's not about mass government control of industry any more as other levers can be employed effectively to control how companies operate. There may still be a case for nationalisation in some cases but generally it's no longer necessary - and that's what Labour failed to recognise. That ship has sailed.

It's anybody's guess how Labour will change in the wake of the election defeat but it's the difference between their being an effective opposition with a chance of winning in 2024 or not.

Good grief!  What's happening? I'm having to agree with you on this!  However reading the double-page spread in today's Sunday Times about Labour's machinations over the leadership processes and rules, it looks very much like they haven't seemingly learned any lessons from the good hiding they've just been given at the election and the left factions and the Momentum crowd are still probably going to hold sway and try and elect a 'continuity Corbyn'!

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40 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Good grief!  What's happening? I'm having to agree with you on this!  However reading the double-page spread in today's Sunday Times about Labour's machinations over the leadership processes and rules, it looks very much like they haven't seemingly learned any lessons from the good hiding they've just been given at the election and the left factions and the Momentum crowd are still probably going to hold sway and try and elect a 'continuity Corbyn'!

not trying to be confrountationable ?spelling... but as the election results appeared on the Friday morning, most labour mp's-those in and out gave good honest appraisals of their defeat and showing. Then the back room started making excusses ie the media was against us, Brexit was the main reason we lost, the weather etc etc...now its the official line is everybody was against us, the voters didn't know what they were doing, our campaign was good and fell for the tory lies... Don't momentum etc give the voters credit on being able to vote for policies they want, and see through the bull s**t...?

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4 hours ago, bobvale said:

this is how it goes isn't it. I actually logged off and will do again in a few seconds. but i can not let the complete nonesense and lies posted above stand.

You all lie. All the time.

every single point in regal begal first response is lies. Every single one. his post above about racist and far right people" joing labour in numbers that eclipse britains firsts membership" is an out right lie. i could have perhaps ignored it but when he writes on his post that he is writing facts i feel i have to log on and repeat... you are telling lies. just because you write that it is a fact it does not make it one. it is lies. it is so tyring trying to confront lies like regal beagals and bycarsbills and geosnames and as much as i would like to talk about politics i find that i am not doing that but pointing out lie after lie. and then others say more lies. it is like playing tennis against 5 people who all have a ball.

regal beagles posts is full of lies.

i wonder if geosname will ever attack those. i don't think so. logging off again now.

 

4 hours ago, bobvale said:

when i say you all lie, i mean people like regal beagale and bycarsbill, not the kind decent people on here . goodbye.

Feel free to explain how anything I've posted is a lie bob but I don't think you will (seems to be a running theme with posters on the left).

Shooting from the hip, name calling, smearing. I've had it all before on this forum and non of it has stuck. 

 

All I will say is that Labour lost the election, in part, due to their rampant anti-semtism. That's a cold hard fact.

 

Trying to point score now is purely bitterness and burying your head in the sand.

 

I simply don't trust a labour voter's view on "decent" people due to their track record of getting it horrendously wrong.

 

Up the torys. Come on the mighty brexit. It's about 3-0 to the good guys now.

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6 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

 

1) All I will say is that Labour lost the election, in part, due to their rampant anti-semtism. That's a cold hard fact.

 

2) I simply don't trust a labour voter's view on "decent" people due to their track record of getting it horrendously wrong.

 

3) Up the torys. Come on the mighty brexit. It's about 3-0 to the good guys now.

1) Thats the corner piece to the jigsaw of why they lost, one of the easiest pieces to find.

2) It's Labour voters who put Boris in number 10, to many of them went blue and have given Boris to much of a majority. They have also given him time to keep them at the next election.

3) That's a strange thing to say, politicians are "Good guys"?.... when did that happen?

Leaving the EU was the wrong decision, in my opinion, but it had to be done given the vote of the referendum. I suggested it would cause serious problems if the vote was not honoured. Labour increased their prospects in the last election by saying they would and got abandoned in this election for changing their minds, another 2 corners of the jigsaw puzzel why they lost, the forth corner being the leadership..... they seem to think this jigsaw only has 4 pieces.... Again in my opinion, all the remain campaigns, legal cases, influential remain groups etc all helped Boris, because it reinforced his "Get it done" message and Labour jumped on the bandwagon by abandoning their previous promise to honour the result..... probably due to internal pressure.

There is little to get excited about on leaving the EU,  there is even less to get excited about having a party with such a large majority leading the country in any direction.

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13 hours ago, Davebrad said:

not trying to be confrountationable ?spelling... but as the election results appeared on the Friday morning, most labour mp's-those in and out gave good honest appraisals of their defeat and showing. Then the back room started making excusses ie the media was against us, Brexit was the main reason we lost, the weather etc etc...now its the official line is everybody was against us, the voters didn't know what they were doing, our campaign was good and fell for the tory lies... Don't momentum etc give the voters credit on being able to vote for policies they want, and see through the bull s**t...?

As Allan Johnson the Labour former Home Secretary said; "Momentum are just playing student politics" and it seems that a big chunk of the Labour activists rather have 'purity of ideas' rather than be in power.  One day they will perhaps wake up to the fact that to enact any ideas at all you have to be in power. As Johnson says--purely student politics--they're not about policies, only ideologies!

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6 hours ago, geosname said:

1) Thats the corner piece to the jigsaw of why they lost, one of the easiest pieces to find.

2) It's Labour voters who put Boris in number 10, to many of them went blue and have given Boris to much of a majority. They have also given him time to keep them at the next election.

3) That's a strange thing to say, politicians are "Good guys"?.... when did that happen?

Leaving the EU was the wrong decision, in my opinion, but it had to be done given the vote of the referendum. I suggested it would cause serious problems if the vote was not honoured. Labour increased their prospects in the last election by saying they would and got abandoned in this election for changing their minds, another 2 corners of the jigsaw puzzel why they lost, the forth corner being the leadership..... they seem to think this jigsaw only has 4 pieces.... Again in my opinion, all the remain campaigns, legal cases, influential remain groups etc all helped Boris, because it reinforced his "Get it done" message and Labour jumped on the bandwagon by abandoning their previous promise to honour the result..... probably due to internal pressure.

There is little to get excited about on leaving the EU,  there is even less to get excited about having a party with such a large majority leading the country in any direction.

At least there's some direction, whether you or I or indeed anyone else agrees,  it is at least clear-cut. Unlike all the pot-pouris of a wish list ideas that Labour presented to the electorate! We all know that Boris does play fast and loose with the truth at times, but Labour has to work out why the majority of the population was still prepared to believe in Boris rather than Corbyn & Labour's fantasy project!

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On 28/12/2019 at 17:45, bobvale said:

I have felt very sad over Christmas thinking about the decent government that we could have had and the people that we could have helped and the lying scheeming man that is now in charge. I saw that Jeremy Corbyn spent part of his Christmas day helping at his local homeless shelter and at a foodbank on Christmas eve. I DON'T THink Boris Johnson would ever do that in a month of sundays. And now the man who invented a scheme that has caused people to kill themselves (Universal credit) has been given a night hood. Shame on the torys.

davebrad. Labour had a leader like cooper or benn. His name was Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband and the voters rejected him.

Why did some of the poorest in our society vote for the Tories then?

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1 hour ago, For Us All said:

Why did some of the poorest in our society vote for the Tories then?

Only billionaires/millionaires vote for the Conservatives,Tony.Don’t you know anything?😉Nearly 14 million people are now millionaires/billionaires, in the country ,who voted.

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4 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

At least there's some direction, whether you or I or indeed anyone else agrees,  it is at least clear-cut. Unlike all the pot-pouris of a wish list ideas that Labour presented to the electorate! We all know that Boris does play fast and loose with the truth at times, but Labour has to work out why the majority of the population was still prepared to believe in Boris rather than Corbyn & Labour's fantasy project!

In my opinion we had to leave..... not my choice but we had little alternative unless we ignored a huge public vote..... in my opinion that would have been a huge mistake.

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25 minutes ago, geosname said:

In my opinion we had to leave..... not my choice but we had little alternative unless we ignored a huge public vote..... in my opinion that would have been a huge mistake.

But if Labour believes that it's only about Brexit then they are well & truly sunk for a long time to come!

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3 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

But if Labour believes that it's only about Brexit then they are well & truly sunk for a long time to come!

I'm not suggesting Labour's problems are solely brexit, they have wider problems than a single issue to deal with..... someone had to grab the crappy end of the brexit stick and it happend to be borris.... if jezza had as well it would have been a closer result, I don't think he would have won but the defeat wouldn't have been so total.

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5 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

But if Labour believes that it's only about Brexit then they are well & truly sunk for a long time to come!

 

On 29/12/2019 at 17:21, Bycarsbill said:

Good grief!  What's happening? I'm having to agree with you on this!  However reading the double-page spread in today's Sunday Times about Labour's machinations over the leadership processes and rules, it looks very much like they haven't seemingly learned any lessons from the good hiding they've just been given at the election and the left factions and the Momentum crowd are still probably going to hold sway and try and elect a 'continuity Corbyn'!

I think the saying " the first step in solving a problem, is admitting there is one ". sums up the labour party. and until they take a long hard  look at themselves, they will be lucky to stay as the main opposition party...

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In his traditional leader's New Year message, Mr Corbyn makes no direct reference to the election result or his own future,

"It won't be easy," he said. "But we have built a movement. We are the resistance to Boris Johnson. We will be campaigning every day. We will be on the front line, both in Parliament and on the streets."

"Make no mistake, our movement is very strong... we're not backed by the press barons, by the billionaires or by the millionaires who work for the billionaires. We're backed by you. We are by the many, for the many.

_______________________________________________________

Jezza seems to see himself as some latter day Moses wanting to part the blue sea and lead the gentiles to his vision of the promised land. 

The only movement I saw is the bowel movement when the results from the red wall started to be announced.

The sooner Labour start representing the people instead of trying to dictate what the people want the better they will become..... I can't see any signs of it yet.

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5 minutes ago, geosname said:

In his traditional leader's New Year message, Mr Corbyn makes no direct reference to the election result or his own future,

"It won't be easy," he said. "But we have built a movement. We are the resistance to Boris Johnson. We will be campaigning every day. We will be on the front line, both in Parliament and on the streets."

"Make no mistake, our movement is very strong... we're not backed by the press barons, by the billionaires or by the millionaires who work for the billionaires. We're backed by you. We are by the many, for the many.

_______________________________________________________

Jezza seems to see himself as some latter day Moses wanting to part the blue sea and lead the gentiles to his vision of the promised land. 

The only movement I saw is the bowel movement when the results from the red wall started to be announced.

The sooner Labour start representing the people instead of trying to dictate what the people want the better they will become..... I can't see any signs of it yet.

Corbyn's still there?! Crikey, anyone else would have crawled away to lick their electoral wounds.

As for being a modern day 'Moses', he - and the Labour Party - will need an electoral 'earthquake' to part the 'Tory Sea'.

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