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Labour leadership


geosname

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Jeremy Corbyn has urged Labour to lead "the resistance" to Boris Johnson's Tory government over the coming year.

 

This in a nutshell is what is wrong with politics in the UK. 

Before they know what's going to happen they resist it...... even if it's good for they country or for the people simply because the tories are doing it..... it would be the same if the roles were reversed...

It's no longer about the people or the country....... it's about the power.

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36 minutes ago, geosname said:

Perhaps it could simply be that Labour want everyone to be equal and the only way to achieve that is to reduce to the lowest common denominator. People are not equal, most don't want to be... because with the a .. the country can't afford them to be.

in a nut shell... and again me being cynical but what a example if they would donate a part of their pay, £79,468/yr because their expenses cover a lot of ordinary living expenses, in 2009 they had £90505 to cover staff, which could be family members. Do they pay for a cuppa, or a meal in the commons café/restaurant after a long session? they could be saving 90% of their pay for after they get kicked out, oh and when they do go they get a resettlement payment which in 2015 of £33,000 if they had "served" 6yrs or more, has as been said in the last few years a gravy train...

   This is for all not a knock against labour, but they seem to make more play out of being equal, and we all remember DA and the private school, sorry if i'm offending anyone by bringing that up... Its all a bit like communist states where all is for the state, and the leaders live in big houses and chauffeured in big cars, we all are equal but some more than others.

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

Anybody know what "progressive patriotism" is?

Extremely difficult to define, even harder to explain.

The vague area of seperation between patriotism and nationalism perhaps?

Possibly the difference of having pride in ones country for what it is as opposed to what it could/should/will/may be in the future...... lead by a left Labour government of course.

Whatever the implied definition it suggests that Labour want to dictate to as opposed to representing the electorates wants and needs.

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2 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Labour should take a leaf out of the racist far right tory party:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-50947097#click=https://t.co/Cp40jUAEP4

The question that jumps out is an obvious one.....

If that's the "living wage" will pensions and benefits be included in the increase?

It will represent more than a 6% increase.

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6 hours ago, Heatwave said:

Blair had to overturn a bigger majority than that to win in 1997. All Labour have to do is to make someone similar leader and wait for Boris to make his own party thoroughly unelectable - as well he might.

The Tory majority leading into the 97 election was only 20.  And Kinnock had already clawed back 40 odd seats in 92 rather than lost that amount.

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18 minutes ago, geosname said:

Extremely difficult to define, even harder to explain.

The vague area of seperation between patriotism and nationalism perhaps?

Possibly the difference of having pride in ones country for what it is as opposed to what it could/should/will/may be in the future...... lead by a left Labour government of course.

Whatever the implied definition it suggests that Labour want to dictate to as opposed to representing the electorates wants and needs.

I think its down to what a person perceives it to be... these last few years we've gone thru apologies for anything to do with slavery, or persons connected to it, they are taking down civil war statues of southern states in the US again because of slavery, but you can't rewrite your history, Germany and Japan tried after the second world war but its denial of their history. 

People are now on about imperialism, we colonised a fair bit of the world in Victorian times coinciding with the indusrial revolution, built infrastructure in third world colonies, the days of the raj in India, etc... Gt. Britain as been called the worst out of France, Germany, Belgium, amongst others, but were we?  or were we just better at it than the others... 

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1 hour ago, Davebrad said:

I think its down to what a person perceives it to be... these last few years we've gone thru apologies for anything to do with slavery, or persons connected to it, they are taking down civil war statues of southern states in the US again because of slavery, but you can't rewrite your history, Germany and Japan tried after the second world war but its denial of their history. 

People are now on about imperialism, we colonised a fair bit of the world in Victorian times coinciding with the indusrial revolution, built infrastructure in third world colonies, the days of the raj in India, etc... Gt. Britain as been called the worst out of France, Germany, Belgium, amongst others, but were we?  or were we just better at it than the others... 

You can't judge history by today's yardstick.

You can love your country and regret it's mistakes..... you can't rectify them just acknowledge them and change because of them, which we do in most cases.

The things that seemed normal in the past, usually because they were accepted as such, would be horrendous today. It's the changes that we make because of them that defines normal today.

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On 30/12/2019 at 16:37, geosname said:

I'm not suggesting Labour's problems are solely brexit, they have wider problems than a single issue to deal with..... someone had to grab the crappy end of the brexit stick and it happend to be borris.... if jezza had as well it would have been a closer result, I don't think he would have won but the defeat wouldn't have been so total.

I think the actual result was a denial of that. The electorate very clearly didn't see Corbyn's aims for big government and ideological experiments as even partially attractive and it seems to me that if Labour now persists (as it appears to be doing) with a 'continuity Corbyn' leadership candidates then it will continue to put off many more voters than it is likely to attract!

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On 31/12/2019 at 16:54, Jacko51 said:

The Tory majority leading into the 97 election was only 20.  And Kinnock had already clawed back 40 odd seats in 92 rather than lost that amount.

The Tory's didn't have an overall majority in 2019 and yet Corbyn still couldn't overturn that!

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3 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

The Tory's didn't have an overall majority in 2019 and yet Corbyn still couldn't overturn that!

Jezza started the day within touching distance of No 10 and ended the day in the Russian steppes. 

It's a bit like the ending of white heat ( Cagney classic 1949)..... standing on top of a gas storage tank he shouts top of the world then shoots the gas tank.

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