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Labour leadership


geosname

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4 hours ago, TheSage said:

Boris Johnson is the most dishonest PM in history, a complete buffoon who doesn't know his brief, waffles garbled rubbish and avoids scrutiny as much as possible.

After all his pronouncements regarding poor people, the citizens of Liverpool, Muslim women and single parent families, I'm staggered that anyone with any integrity or sense of right and wrong would vote for him. 

I haven't even mentioned his dubious standards of morality and refusal to say how many children he fathered, nor his continual stream of lies from the 70 million Turks to the no border in the Irish Sea.

Nor his blatant lying to the Queen. Nor his attempt to close down Parliament.

You can be a Tory. You can be on the right of politics. But if you can't condemn Johnson and all his appalling lies and slurs then more fool you. 

Little wonder that decent Tories like Grieve and Major and Patten and Gauke and the rest dropped him like a stone. He's an arrogant, self-serving clown. And some of us on here I guess are more than happy to have been with the 55% of the electorate who didn't vote for Johnson.

And this is why Labour wont be in power in the next decade.

Totally and utterly oblivious to reality.

A complete and utter failure to accept any responsibility for their own failure.

 

I watched a fantastic interview on a left leaning podcast with a professor of politics today and he said that the most staggering things to him over the past week are:

a) that people are apparently surprised by the election result

b) that already the prospective leaders of the labour party are missing the point when it comes to their humiliation last week. Their heartlands don't share their far left identity politics principles.

 

The example he gave was...If you put a Westminster tory voter and redcar tory voter in the same room, they'd agree on most things.

If you put an Islington labour member in a room with a blyth valley labour member...they'd agree on very little.

 

Labour will make a right hash of their leadership election for the same reasons that Sage has outlines above. They refuse to accept the truth, the public has rejected them.

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7 hours ago, TheSage said:

Boris Johnson is the most dishonest PM in history, a complete buffoon who doesn't know his brief, waffles garbled rubbish and avoids scrutiny as much as possible.

After all his pronouncements regarding poor people, the citizens of Liverpool, Muslim women and single parent families, I'm staggered that anyone with any integrity or sense of right and wrong would vote for him. 

I haven't even mentioned his dubious standards of morality and refusal to say how many children he fathered, nor his continual stream of lies from the 70 million Turks to the no border in the Irish Sea.

Nor his blatant lying to the Queen. Nor his attempt to close down Parliament.

You can be a Tory. You can be on the right of politics. But if you can't condemn Johnson and all his appalling lies and slurs then more fool you. 

Little wonder that decent Tories like Grieve and Major and Patten and Gauke and the rest dropped him like a stone. He's an arrogant, self-serving clown. And some of us on here I guess are more than happy to have been with the 55% of the electorate who didn't vote for Johnson.

Aup Nick, your last paragraph reminds me that the one real danger stalking a would be political leader - especially a PM - comes from within and is known as 'revenge', and you bet a brick to the Angel of Burslem that Boris is very aware of this. Party political backslapping can, and does, quickly turn into back stabbing.

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12 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

And this is why Labour wont be in power in the next decade.

Totally and utterly oblivious to reality.

A complete and utter failure to accept any responsibility for their own failure.

 

I watched a fantastic interview on a left leaning podcast with a professor of politics today and he said that the most staggering things to him over the past week are:

a) that people are apparently surprised by the election result

b) that already the prospective leaders of the labour party are missing the point when it comes to their humiliation last week. Their heartlands don't share their far left identity politics principles.

 

The example he gave was...If you put a Westminster tory voter and redcar tory voter in the same room, they'd agree on most things.

If you put an Islington labour member in a room with a blyth valley labour member...they'd agree on very little.

 

Labour will make a right hash of their leadership election for the same reasons that Sage has outlines above. They refuse to accept the truth, the public has rejected them.

So you don't dispute any of the points made about Boris then? Okay.

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18 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Pragmatism.  Is that when you change from being a remainer to a leaver because you think that will be better for your career rather than the country?  I'm not bitter and twisted about anyone - certainly nothing like as much as you are about Corbyn (whom I dislike as you may have realised).  Logic and history tells me that Boris Johnson does whatever will progress the career of Boris Johnson whether good for the country or not.  If you can't see that then I'm afraid it's you who's one eyed.  Would Thatcher, for example, have sold off some of the UK's defence capability to Trump and Co to keep the US happy in advance of our wonderful trade deal with them?  Would she buggery.  Would any other Prime Minister have dumped on Northern Ireland after saying he would never do such a thing?  

Johnson has a very tenuous relationship with the truth.  And don't say "what about .....?" we're talking about Johnson here and he has spent his life and career lying to his bosses, his wife, the lasses he was having affairs with.  I can't recall any other Prime Minister who has had a whole website devoted to his dishonesty. 

You support the guy if you want, that's your choice, but don't expect me to fall into line behind a bloke with no conscience and little emotional intelligence. 

Thought I'd made it very clear on many previous posts that I DON'T rate Boris's personality that highly and for the umpteenth, umpteenth time, he wasn't my choice for leader--there I can't be any more unequivocal than that.

But, although I don't disagree with your analysis of many of Boris's personal traits, I can still retain a much higher level of objectivity regarding the political situation generally.  I repeat an earlier assertion; as Boris's best interests and present political situation are currently very closely aligned, it is very much in Boris's own interests to look after the interests of the country and in particular the former Labour voters who have 'lent' him their vote.  These two issues are for once, totally inter-related and therefore quite obvious to see if you can only keep open both eyes. Of course I shall not be in favour of all his upcoming actions, but it's plain common sense to see that he has no other rational, political way to go than to produce the one-nation Conservatism policies that he so fondly talks of.  Time will obviously tell, but I suspect that I'll be more accurate in my prediction than you on this issue.

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18 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

It's crazy to demand a higher standard from "the other side" than your own.

 

Why did Corbyn refuse to back remain, keeping up the utter garbage of either not deciding or remaining neutral? He did it because he wanted to try and appeal to both sides of a binary vote. We know full well he didn't do it in line with his own principles - in fact he was going against them. Almost every person in politics is doing it for themselves first and foremost and I'm confident that everyone who sees themselves as a potential party leader is definitely in that camp too.

Soubry is another great example, demanding a second vote because of material changes to brexit but denying her constituents a second vote after she left the tory party.

 

Boris is only in it for Boris is just a throw away insult in my opinion. As Bycarsbill points out, that will surely mean that he will have to do at least SOME good for the public to re-elect him in 5 years time. There is also no evidence that I have seen that he is any more egocentric than anyone else in the political scene currently.

I don't hold out much hope that we'll shift Jacko51'S one-eyed views!  But thanks for trying.

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i have found jacko51 to be a very decent fair person on here and he has pointed out things he thought were wrong with both labour and the torys. I don't see how you can say that he is one eyed. Then again, you like making up untrue things about people don't you?

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37 minutes ago, bobvale said:

i have found jacko51 to be a very decent fair person on here and she has pointed out things she thought were wrong with both labour and the torys. I don't see how you can say that she is one eyed. Then again, you like making up untrue things about people don't you?

Just corrected that for you Bob. 😉

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56 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Thought I'd made it very clear on many previous posts that I DON'T rate Boris's personality that highly and for the umpteenth, umpteenth time, he wasn't my choice for leader--there I can't be any more unequivocal than that.

But, although I don't disagree with your analysis of many of Boris's personal traits, I can still retain a much higher level of objectivity regarding the political situation generally.  I repeat an earlier assertion; as Boris's best interests and present political situation are currently very closely aligned, it is very much in Boris's own interests to look after the interests of the country and in particular the former Labour voters who have 'lent' him their vote.  These two issues are for once, totally inter-related and therefore quite obvious to see if you can only keep open both eyes. Of course I shall not be in favour of all his upcoming actions, but it's plain common sense to see that he has no other rational, political way to go than to produce the one-nation Conservatism policies that he so fondly talks of.  Time will obviously tell, but I suspect that I'll be more accurate in my prediction than you on this issue.

We are at cross purposes here, Bill. 

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35 minutes ago, bobvale said:

i have found jacko51 to be a very decent fair person on here and he has pointed out things he thought were wrong with both labour and the torys. I don't see how you can say that he is one eyed. Then again, you like making up untrue things about people don't you?

Bob..... everyone is entitled to their opinion mate, no matter how wrong someone else sees it, but do yourself a favour don't start making it personal.

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1 minute ago, Bycarsbill said:

I don't think so, but as I said; time will tell and we'll have to see if Boris delivers!

My position is that Johnson is an unsuitable man to be Prime Minister because of his history.  Your position is that he is right the best man to be Prime Minister because what he does to enhance his own position will be right for the country.  I believe he should not be in the job in the first place.  You believe he should because he is a self-centred egotist and that is what the country needs at the moment.  We are both "one-eyed" as you put it.  The only difference is that your one eye can't see it.

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5 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

My position is that Johnson is an unsuitable man to be Prime Minister because of his history.  Your position is that he is right the best man to be Prime Minister because what he does to enhance his own position will be right for the country.  I believe he should not be in the job in the first place.  You believe he should because he is a self-centred egotist and that is what the country needs at the moment.  We are both "one-eyed" as you put it.  The only difference is that your one eye can't see it.

Now your one-eye is not only reading things incorrectly, but you're attributing words to me that I've never written.  Specsavers should be a destination for you in the new year young man.  Have a good one!

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