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Labour leadership


geosname

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57 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

It's £35,000 after tax. 

A laudible individual gesture.  Everyone has the option to donate to charity and I certainly do have a programme of donations to 2 specific charities that I support.  But not taking anything away from the young lass-good for her.

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3 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

A laudible individual gesture.  Everyone has the option to donate to charity and I certainly do have a programme of donations to 2 specific charities that I support.  But not taking anything away from the young lass-good for her.

Agreed.  I was just correcting the figure.

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19 hours ago, Heatwave said:

You call me a 'Labour apologist' with no evidence for that in what I've written. Yes, I would have preferred the kind of radical agenda that Corbyn promised as the alternative has only delivered fat cats and food banks. But I'm not a Labour party member and, even if I had been, certainly wouldn't have wanted Corbyn as leader - personally I thought Labour went for the wrong Miliband as leader in 2010.

But I digress. Leopards don't change their spots and I see nothing in Boris Johnson's past that leads me to believe that he has anything to offer the country other than more lies and a subservience to Donald Trump that will cost us dear.

But you are still making apologies for the Labour leadership as too, are most Labour spokespeople over the weekend. Lessons do not appear to have been learned. And, believe me, in lots of ways that suits me fine. However, I class myself as a true democrat and as such would much prefer a sensible, real opposition to hold any government to account.

I've posted on many occasions that I don't 'hold a torch' for Boris Johnson and he and the Conservative government are now going to have to back up his promises to ensure that traditional Labour voters who have 'lent' him their votes are not disappointed. I suspect he will do his best for these people--not out of any philanthropic gesture, but purely for political reasons if he wishes to win the next election!

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2 hours ago, bobvale said:

I am very impressed by the new mp for Nottingham. She is only 23 and has promised to only take about 30 thousand pounds of her salary and will give the rest to charity. Then again, she is a left wing mp so you lot will probably not like her and wish she was jess phillips or ian Austin.

It doesn't matter what wing she sits under, it's a none political donation to a charity.... if that's what she wants to do that's great.

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4 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You are so right. It does not need a sticking plaster, it needs radical change, and get rid of the Corbynistas, Momentum and Mcluskey etc. Will they do it? I doubt it very much.

No chance with Momentum holding all the power levers in the part and in particular on the NEC.  Interesting to see how they're now fighting like rats in a sack this morning.  This internal wrangling and arguing I suspect is going to carry on for some time to come--so much for all the "quiet introspection" quotes by various senior Labour figures over the weekend!

It should be a very salutory thought that because of all the lost seats across the country, as the numbers currently stand, it will take no less than 123 net seat gains at the next general election just to get an overall parliamentary majority of 2! That clearly sums up the size of the problem Labour has created for itself.  And, the longer they go on blaming, the press, Brexit and any other excuses they can come up with rather than being properly introspective, the longer it will take and the more difficult it will become to even begin on any road to recovery!

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Sadly, I feel that labour would get that many seats is if we went back to the years of tony blair and have policys that the sun and the daily mail and the others who are in charge don't find offensive. Anything that challenges them will sadly result in what we saw with Jeremy Corbyn - lies and slurs around every corner. I don't think he dealt with those lies well at all but I do agree with his sons who have written a letter saying how he is the most insulted and lied about politician.

I wonder what people think about the charts that I have seen showing how the majority of people up until around 50 years of age vote labour and the majority of those over 50 will vote for the conservatives. I wonder if as my generation passes away whether the age where people turn tory will get older or whether people always change there mind when thy get older? Interesting? I for one am very proud of what my generation has done but sometimes I feel a little ashamed about how selfish we can be. I certanly do not feel that we are leaving the country in a better place when we leave sadly.

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As I see it, bob, Labour has two options - they either continue along the Corbyn path and make themselves unelectable or they move more to the centre and begin to appeal to middle England again.  Socialism or social democracy.  There is little point in having fixed ideas if you never get elected to implement them.

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43 minutes ago, bobvale said:

Sadly, I feel that labour would get that many seats is if we went back to the years of tony blair and have policys that the sun and the daily mail and the others who are in charge don't find offensive. Anything that challenges them will sadly result in what we saw with Jeremy Corbyn - lies and slurs around every corner. I don't think he dealt with those lies well at all but I do agree with his sons who have written a letter saying how he is the most insulted and lied about politician.

I wonder what people think about the charts that I have seen showing how the majority of people up until around 50 years of age vote labour and the majority of those over 50 will vote for the conservatives. I wonder if as my generation passes away whether the age where people turn tory will get older or whether people always change there mind when thy get older? Interesting? I for one am very proud of what my generation has done but sometimes I feel a little ashamed about how selfish we can be. I certanly do not feel that we are leaving the country in a better place when we leave sadly.

Big factor is housing, instead of buying houses in their 20/30s they are renting or living with parents/in laws, or multiple occupancy. Fewer are buying cars. the first generation in history to be worse off than their parents. 40 years of neglect in the North to be sorted in 5 years? 

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17 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Big factor is housing, instead of buying houses in their 20/30s they are renting or living with parents/in laws, or multiple occupancy. Fewer are buying cars. the first generation in history to be worse off than their parents. 40 years of neglect in the North to be sorted in 5 years? 

Depends upon your definition of "worse off than their parents"?  I happened to have got married in the early 1970s and I grant you that we did manage to scrape together a deposit for a small bungalow in Biddulph.  However, after the mortgage we didn't have any money left over for furniture, so had to rely on gifts and hand-me-downs from family & friends--we even had a second-hand gas fridge at that stage of our lives! Not sure what age you are, but in those days there was no such thing as a credit card (it hadn't been invented then) and you therefore had to either save up enough for a bigger purchase or get it 'on the tick' (hire-purchase). I can assure you these were not exactly days spent glowing in the heights of luxury!

The height of luxury for us in those days was maybe twice a year we could manage to fund a visit to a Berni Inn for a 'special' meal out. Pubs were even a 'luxury' in those days and if we wanted (and could afford) a drink, it was a bottle of beer from the 'offy' (off-licence) to drink at home--or if you were a bit more extravagant--beer at home delivered by Davenports--look up their adverts if you want a laugh. 

We couldn't even afford a television set until almost 3 years after we got married and a car was a far-off luxury for most people in those days.  Shoes got repaired at the local cobblers as we couldn't afford to buy too many pairs new and you tended to have only your workday clothes and one set of 'Sunday best' clothes for special occasions. So don't be taken in by all the left-wing claptrap about being a poorer generation and please don't try to tell me that you are now "worse off" than previous generations. I'm sure many of the older posters on here will recognise the picture I paint and unless you lived through those rather basic times you can't have any perception of what "being worse off" really means.  Having said all that, I suspect in many ways we were much more self-sufficient and content with our lot than the youth of today appear to be. So if that's your definition of being "better off" then I plead guilty, but in purely commercial and financial terms it was, I have to tell you, a much more basic and impoverished world than it is today!!

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1 hour ago, bobvale said:

Sadly, I feel that labour would get that many seats is if we went back to the years of tony blair and have policys that the sun and the daily mail and the others who are in charge don't find offensive. Anything that challenges them will sadly result in what we saw with Jeremy Corbyn - lies and slurs around every corner. I don't think he dealt with those lies well at all but I do agree with his sons who have written a letter saying how he is the most insulted and lied about politician.

I wonder what people think about the charts that I have seen showing how the majority of people up until around 50 years of age vote labour and the majority of those over 50 will vote for the conservatives. I wonder if as my generation passes away whether the age where people turn tory will get older or whether people always change there mind when thy get older? Interesting? I for one am very proud of what my generation has done but sometimes I feel a little ashamed about how selfish we can be. I certanly do not feel that we are leaving the country in a better place when we leave sadly.

I doubt it. People tend to grow up and stop voting for Labour as they realise how the world actually works. Look at most Labour voters over the age of 45, dress like children most of them ("traditional working class Labour" over this age no longer exist).

As for Corbyn lies, there isn't much need for lies because the truth is pretty damning for that fellow. Absolute scum. He must be on the psychopathic end of the mental spectrum. Thankfully people around here and across the north saw through his filth. As Ruth Smeeth stated, Labour are the racist party.

His supporters are either 

1. anarchists. 

2. Public servants looking out for themselves after the promise of inflation busting payrises.

3. Naive students, 80% of which have never seen the inside of a back street boozer.

4. Middle class 30 somethings living in the gentrified metropolitan bubble full of enough guilt over their own prosperity to vote Labour (although they should vote Lib Dem).

The "working class base" has been patronized to death through years of absolute drivel. The Labour Party are so out of touch with reality that it's not even funny. It's not healthy to have such a weak opposition as any government needs to be held accountable.

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Bycars Bill has it right. People are sick to death of hearing that 14.5 million people are in poverty in the country. Their definition of poverty is complete nonsense. Most people starting out would have been classed as being in poverty when they first got married. Moving the bar up as a percentage of median household income is absolute nonsense.

 

I feel I may have been harsh on some public servants there. Not all that voted for Labour had their vote bought.

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29 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Depends upon your definition of "worse off than their parents"?  I happened to have got married in the early 1970s and I grant you that we did manage to scrape together a deposit for a small bungalow in Biddulph.  However, after the mortgage we didn't have any money left over for furniture, so had to rely on gifts and hand-me-downs from family & friends--we even had a second-hand gas fridge at that stage of our lives! Not sure what age you are, but in those days there was no such thing as a credit card (it hadn't been invented then) and you therefore had to either save up enough for a bigger purchase or get it 'on the tick' (hire-purchase). I can assure you these were not exactly days spent glowing in the heights of luxury!

The height of luxury for us in those days was maybe twice a year we could manage to fund a visit to a Berni Inn for a 'special' meal out. Pubs were even a 'luxury' in those days and if we wanted (and could afford) a drink, it was a bottle of beer from the 'offy' (off-licence) to drink at home--or if you were a bit more extravagant--beer at home delivered by Davenports--look up their adverts if you want a laugh. 

We couldn't even afford a television set until almost 3 years after we got married and a car was a far-off luxury for most people in those days.  Shoes got repaired at the local cobblers as we couldn't afford to buy too many pairs new and you tended to have only your workday clothes and one set of 'Sunday best' clothes for special occasions. So don't be taken in by all the left-wing claptrap about being a poorer generation and please don't try to tell me that you are now "worse off" than previous generations. I'm sure many of the older posters on here will recognise the picture I paint and unless you lived through those rather basic times you can't have any perception of what "being worse off" really means.  Having said all that, I suspect in many ways we were much more self-sufficient and content with our lot than the youth of today appear to be. So if that's your definition of being "better off" then I plead guilty, but in purely commercial and financial terms it was, I have to tell you, a much more basic and impoverished world than it is today!!

Based purely on housing costs, the ability to put a deposit together or to afford rent as a % of income. I lived through those times too, the rest are life style decisions, were so many people homeless in those days? sleeping on the streets? But you are comparing 2 generations ago.

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25 minutes ago, AMF said:

Bycars Bill has it right. People are sick to death of hearing that 14.5 million people are in poverty in the country. Their definition of poverty is complete nonsense. Most people starting out would have been classed as being in poverty when they first got married. Moving the bar up as a percentage of median household income is absolute nonsense.

 

I feel I may have been harsh on some public servants there. Not all that voted for Labour had their vote bought.

What is your definition of poverty then? 

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