Lewis Hamilton

[toyahw]

Approaching GOAT status? 

[cheshirevaliant]

Tricky to judge. Clearly very skilled at what he does, although it's hard to know how much is down to having the fastest car and how much is down to being a good driver. Doesn't come across as the sort of bloke I'd like to go for a beer with but I suppose that is the same for many top sportsmen. 

[RailwayRowdy]

The guy has talent of that there is no doubt. But Greatest Of All Time ? In my view, he isn’t even on the same lap as Schumacher or the sadly departed Senna to name but two from recent history alone.

In the current climate, until someone comes up with a way to make every car on the starting grid genuinely equal, all this “who’s the best” debate will continue to be subjective. 

And in there lies the inherent problem of F1 - It is not a level playing field and whilst big hitter sponsors money continues to talk, never will be.

[eh up nah]

I'm not sure F1 is much different to most sports in that respect.  The best drivers end up driving for the best team. Its no coincidence.

Schumacher won it in the Bennetton and thats the last time i can remember a genuinely weaker team winning it.

To be world champion that number of times is an awesome achievement.

It's  impossible to nail down who the best ever is as everyone has their own criteria and there are so many factors.

To consistantly win at the rate he does, he is definitely up there with the best.

And, no, i wouldnt go the pub with him!

[toyahw]

The man in fastest car just wins is often used as an excuse to lessen Hamilton's achievement. As eh up says, it is not a coincidence fast man gets fast car. But in Hamilton's case, for his first championship he became the youngest ever champion, and was not in the fastest car. McClaren did not win the constructors championship.

When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, it was definitely not the fastest car. The fact it has been recently could well have to do with his work helping develop with the team. He has won at least one race every season he has been in F1, even when not in the fastest car. In 2017 it is debateable that he had the faster car, and in 2018 by almost any measure he did not. The Ferrari was quicker.

Even this season, in qualifying it is 9-9 with Ferrari in qualifying. The Merc usually has the edge in race trim, but it's not like it is streets ahead. Look at Sat, Mad Max was right up with the Mercs, and Ferrari have won a few without the aid of DNF's. It's not that the Merc is streets ahead of the rest.

Yeah you can never really name a GOAT, too subjective. But he's up there with a handful of drivers with a legitimate claim. Don't think he gets the credit he deserves from the wider public.

Is he an arse? Well that is subjective. That is the way he portrayed. But James Hunt was a "complicated" character. Schumi, not averse to the dark arts. Jenson Button lived in Monaco... etc etc. 

 

[Paul6754]

Fair to say due to his record he has to be one of the Greatest of All Time but people will argue 'til the cows come home who is the GOAT. I was always a big fan of Ayrton Senna.  Although I love cars I don't watch much F1 these days, usually only worth watching the start of most races.

[Jacko51]

8 hours ago, RailwayRowdy said:

The guy has talent of that there is no doubt. But Greatest Of All Time ? In my view, he isn’t even on the same lap as Schumacher or the sadly departed Senna to name but two from recent history alone.

In the current climate, until someone comes up with a way to make every car on the starting grid genuinely equal, all this “who’s the best” debate will continue to be subjective. 

And in there lies the inherent problem of F1 - It is not a level playing field and whilst big hitter sponsors money continues to talk, never will be.

Schumacher was a bit cynical in his driving - ask Damon Hill amongst several others.  Also, it was always reckoned that when he drove for Ferrari his team mate was never allowed to race him.  You wouldn't have seen what happened in the US on Sunday.

With regard to the cars, how many times have Hamilton's team mates - in the same cars - won the World Championship.

[RailwayRowdy]

54 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Schumacher was a bit cynical in his driving - ask Damon Hill amongst several others.  Also, it was always reckoned that when he drove for Ferrari his team mate was never allowed to race him.  You wouldn't have seen what happened in the US on Sunday.

With regard to the cars, how many times have Hamilton's team mates - in the same cars - won the World Championship.

Firstly Jacko, I take your point about Schumacher and Hill. I take It you refer to the last race of the season (Australian ?) when the German just needed to finish in front of Hill to take the title. Hill was in front so Schumacher appeared to take him out on a corner. Fair point.

On your other points, Hamilton didn’t exactly get on with team mate Rosberg did he ? 

But team orders pretty much still apply, so the team leader is never going to be beat by the No. 2 driver because he isn’t allowed to do so.

There was that famous race  where Rosberg was all over Hamilton’s rear end, clearly making the point that he was faster than Hamilton but was not allowed to overtake him !

This was the friction between the beloved Hamilton & Rosberg, 

No one (not even me) doubts Hamilton’s talents. But he is undoubtedly in the best car. A few years ago when Vettel was in the best car, Hamilton couldn’t match him !
F1 needs to find a way of making it an even contest.

Unfortunately, it won’t.

 

[philpvfc]

Better than Senna but not sure about better than Schumacher.