General Erection - 12th December 2019

[mr.hobblesworth]

Yeah, and we did so well under centrists like Brown and Miliband, didn't we? And, even though we lost the last election, Corbyn outperformed and got us the biggest share of the vote for nearly 80 years. What is the point of a Labour Party with people like Chuka <ovf censored> Umuna with their PFIs and sad faced austerity and 'controls on immigration' mugs, desperately crawling up Rupert Murdoch's backside and diluting any decent policies so they're palatable enough for some Mail readers? I genuinely feel optimistic about our chances at the election, especially after today's clusterfeck by the tories.

[ginge]

12 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

You epitomise just why Labour is unelectable. Watson gone, Owen Smith, Chukka etc etc.  What are you left with an unelectable leader and his Momentum and Mclusky leftists.  Another spell in opposition looms.

Like him or not he's not unelectable. More votes went to him in 2017 than Cameron in 2015 and 2010 and Blair in 2005. He also increased Labour's vote share more than any party leader since 1945. He's also got young people more engaged in politics than in a long time. The only people who keeps saying he's unelectable is the right wing media. Like I say like him or not, he has proven people wrong in the last election and if he wasn't such a danger to the tories they'd be focusing their energy on other opposition.

[tommytunstall]

1 hour ago, ginge said:

Like him or not he's not unelectable. More votes went to him in 2017 than Cameron in 2015 and 2010 and Blair in 2005. He also increased Labour's vote share more than any party leader since 1945. He's also got young people more engaged in politics than in a long time. The only people who keeps saying he's unelectable is the right wing media. Like I say like him or not, he has proven people wrong in the last election and if he wasn't such a danger to the tories they'd be focusing their energy on other opposition.

Broad Church is the Labour Party, as long as you are Marxist. The sensible ones are leaving, leaving the party to the Left wing loonies.

[ginge]

2 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Broad Church is the Labour Party, as long as you are Marxist. The sensible ones are leaving, leaving the party to the Left wing loonies.

Why are they loonies? 

There are plenty of sensible people in the Labour party.... Keir Starmer, David Lammy, Laura Pidcock, Shami Chakrabarti. Are they all marxists? 

Rory Stewart, Amber Rudd, Nicky Morgan, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve all resigning. The tories have a bigger problem. And it comes to something when the prime minister's own brother buggers off.

[geosname]

6 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Only an idiot keeps voting for the same party and expecting better results.

Its time for a change, no matter how blue nosed you are.

I would estimate that the majority of the country vote for the same party and expect better results.... whether that's Labour or Tories. 

Elections are usually won on what the opposition didn't do, what they got wrong and what we would have done differently...... all past events..... a much smaller proportion is based on what we will do and how we will do it.... the party pledges, because they rarely happen as promised... all future events.

[geosname]

3 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Yeah, and we did so well under centrists like Brown and Miliband, didn't we? And, even though we lost the last election, Corbyn outperformed and got us the biggest share of the vote for nearly 80 years. What is the point of a Labour Party with people like Chuka <ovf censored> Umuna with their PFIs and sad faced austerity and 'controls on immigration' mugs, desperately crawling up Rupert Murdoch's backside and diluting any decent policies so they're palatable enough for some Mail readers? I genuinely feel optimistic about our chances at the election, especially after today's clusterfeck by the tories.

There is the problem in a nutshell...... "we did so well...." The party..... whether it's Labour or Tories..... the party is supreme and must be obeyed..... "diluting policies so they are palatable"...... god forbid the unwashed should like them.

From one extreme..... we take care of the rich because they have the money... to the other..... we will stick it to the rich to give you more.

Why bother with the centre ground where everyone is included..... it's not just brexit that's splitting the country.

[Howjy04]

12 hours ago, ginge said:

Tom Watson will not be standing in the election.

Because he hates Corbyn.

Ian Austin (Labour) “ Vote Tory,Stop Corbyn”.Johnson is getting his campaign done for him.

 

[ginge]

1 hour ago, Howjy04 said:

Because he hates Corbyn.

 

 

They're actually good friends outside of politics. 

[Bycarsbill]

16 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Sorry,  I dont give a damn that the "official report" blames the fire brigade.  The fact that the cladding was allowed in the first place was the problem and that's ultimately council control.  The fact that people still live in tower blocks with the same hazard even now is government issue.  But don't let the truth stop you falling for Tory blame shifting Billy Boy.

Do you actually read anything anyone else writes, or are you only interested in your own myopic view of the world? Of course it was a lot to do with the cladding.  I was making the point (which you neatly appear to have side-stepped) that the cladding was part of a supposed improvement programme and was put on at quite a cost by Westimster council.  I was trying to correct your obvious short-sightedness and cons[piratorial theory that the fire was due to austerity and spending cuts.  In this particular instance, very, very tragically, you couldn't be further from the truth.  The other point you've obviously chosen to ignore is that in trying to place the blame on Boris Johnson, you are very wide of the mark.  Whatever his personal attributes happen to be, whether good or bad (and like most other people, God knows  he has lots of both) as Foreign Secretary at the time of the Grenfell, how can you and your fellow left-wing conspiratists suggest that he was directly involved in this saddest of tragedies?

[Bycarsbill]

17 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Open your eyes, Johnson as mayor of London, reduced the fire service. I will admit he bought water cannons off the Germans but not for fires but for people but May would not let him use them.

Good grief--I think you're now stretching your credibility 'elastic' to its limits!  Johnson ended his term as mayor well before the Grenfell tragedy. To stretch that 'elastic' even more, shall we agree to start blaming Tony Blair for the current state of the Labour party, or Maggie Thatcher for Brexit?  

[For Us All]

14 hours ago, ginge said:

Tom Watson will not be standing in the election.

He probably agrees with Ian Austin and is doing a runner before he's pushed but he hasn't yet said he'd vote for Bojo before Jezza.

I suppose there's time yet though?

[Fosse69]

44 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Good grief--I think you're now stretching your credibility 'elastic' to its limits!  Johnson ended his term as mayor well before the Grenfell tragedy. To stretch that 'elastic' even more, shall we agree to start blaming Tony Blair for the current state of the Labour party, or Maggie Thatcher for Brexit?  

Johnson was Mayor 2008 - 2016, the cladding was installed 2015-16, the cutting back of council building  services and the fire service happened on his watch. Not relevant to this election, it will all come out during the next couple of years in the delayed enquiry. The relevance to this election is the 9 years of austerity resulting in the reduction of services,

[ginge]

13 minutes ago, For Us All said:

He probably agrees with Ian Austin and is doing a runner before he's pushed but he hasn't yet said he'd vote for Bojo before Jezza.

I suppose there's time yet though?

Ian Austin was voicing his anti migrant views similar to those of the BNP in Ed Miliband's era. He's been in the wrong party for a long time and doesn't hold Labour values.

[For Us All]

3 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Johnson was Mayor 2008 - 2016, the cladding was installed 2015-16, the cutting back of council building  services and the fire service happened on his watch. Not relevant to this election, it will all come out during the next couple of years in the delayed enquiry. The relevance to this election is the 9 years of austerity resulting in the reduction of services,

It can also be argued that those nine years were as a result of thirteen years of Labour overspending.

You can spin it how you want but the safest way is to live within your means?

[For Us All]

42 minutes ago, ginge said:

Ian Austin was voicing his anti migrant views similar to those of the BNP in Ed Miliband's era. He's been in the wrong party for a long time and doesn't hold Labour values.

If you mean the values concerning anti-semitism,you're probably right but he isn't the only one?