Jump to content
mr.hobblesworth

General Erection - 12th December 2019

Recommended Posts

Interesting news piece about tax increases on The Guardian's news feed.

Quote

Whoever wins election will face pressure to raise taxes, says thinktank

At his news conference this morning John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, said that 95% of taxpayers would not pay higher rates of income tax or national insurance under Labour. (See 11.23am.) Sajid Javid, the chancellor, signalled last week that the Conservative manifesto will include tax cuts.

But the Resolution Foundation, an economic thinktank, has published a report (pdf) today on tax policy saying that, whoever wins the election, tax increases will be likely. Here is an extract from the summary in its news release.

[The report] warns that many popular claims about UK tax are misleading, and need to be set straight.

For example, it says that while tax receipts as a share of GDP are on course to reach a 40-year high in the next parliament, the average amount of total tax people pay relative to their income has been falling over the past four decades. Income taxes specifically are also low by international standards. In fact, the average effective tax rate on typical earnings has fallen from 30 per cent in 1975, to 25 per cent in 1990 and 18 per cent today. Were taxes on earnings still at their 1990 level, the average worker today would be paying an extra £1,800 a year on tax.

The report says that whoever wins the election is going to face pressure to raise taxes to fund existing public services in an ageing society. The cost of maintaining existing education, health and social security provision is set to rise by £36bn a year by the end of the decade. Added to this, the transition from fossil fuel to electric cars – a policy endorsed by all main parties – could reduce revenues from duties by up to £35bn a year.

The Tories have not announced their plans yet, but there is speculation that the party will propose lifting the national insurance threshold, to bring it into line with the income tax personal allowance. “This would give most workers a tax cut of up to £480, at a cost of £11bn,” the report says. But it says low-income families would not get much benefit from this. It explains:

That’s because working families on universal credit (UC) will immediately lose around two-thirds of any tax cut through lower benefit awards. To ensure that poorer workers gain as much as richer ones, the foundation says that the Conservatives should pledge to ensure that UC’s work allowances go up in line with any tax cuts.

It seems to be a given that people resent tax increases and to suggest them for anyone but the top few % is political suicide but I honestly don't mind paying more, and I'm on probably a lower than average wage. Obviously I would want the government to make sure that the likes of Amazon were paying their fair share too but maybe it's time for us to re-evaluate our attitude towards taxation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Erniemossrules said:

Perfect chance to show that Corbanyster Londoner in Stoke North that the peasants are revolting.

70 per cent voted to leave but she obviously knew better and voted to remain.

Ruth Smeeth is certainly not a Corbyn fan, she also voted voted for Johnsons Brexitdeal, as Ginge stated. Stick to criticising Ryan Loyd, mind you after last night looks like you also wrong there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Interesting news piece about tax increases on The Guardian's news feed.

It seems to be a given that people resent tax increases and to suggest them for anyone but the top few % is political suicide but I honestly don't mind paying more, and I'm on probably a lower than average wage. Obviously I would want the government to make sure that the likes of Amazon were paying their fair share too but maybe it's time for us to re-evaluate our attitude towards taxation.

Absolutely. I once I had a die-hard labourite come to me to do his accounts, always telling me that nobody pays enough tax. His first question to me was - How can you lower my tax bill? I refused to do them. How can someone be so hypocritical? It's the same with the majority - 'Oh people should pay more tax, but not me' - this attitude is killing the country. But the discussion is a vote killer. The tories aren't even close to mentioning tax cuts, and Labour are going after the top earners which will win some votes, but ultimately people have to realise that targeting the rich almost exclusively will have some drawbacks.

 

I think that aside from the very low paid, EVERYONE should be paying more tax. UK income tax rates are too low, and the chronic lack of investment in public services over the past few decades shows this. People can point to the tories taking over as a focal point in that, but it was happening way before that to a lesser extent. It's a tough ship to turn round but it can be done. I have lived in Canada for the last year, and I have to say I am definitely paying more tax than I would have done in the UK. Public services are generally better and infrastructure projects are there for everyone to see.

 

One thing I will say about Corporation Tax, is that there is a fine line between charging too much (Which is when industrial avoidance kicks in) and charging too little. I have noticed (Although not looked in the past couple of years) that as our Corporation Tax rate has reduced, corporation tax receipts have increased. There's a point where it becomes more cost effective to just pay the tax bill, as opposed to paying someone to find intricate loopholes to avoid paying it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Interesting news piece about tax increases on The Guardian's news feed.

It seems to be a given that people resent tax increases and to suggest them for anyone but the top few % is political suicide but I honestly don't mind paying more, and I'm on probably a lower than average wage. Obviously I would want the government to make sure that the likes of Amazon were paying their fair share too but maybe it's time for us to re-evaluate our attitude towards taxation.

I agree with you on this one.  And, I suspect there are probably quite a few more people like you & me who would be willing to cough up a little more in tax, especially if we knew it was going to fund essential services.  However, it's almost impossible to predicate tax revenues for specificpurposes and unfortunately, general tax increases in any party's manifesto has definitely not been a winner over previous elections!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, stupers said:

Absolutely. I once I had a die-hard labourite come to me to do his accounts, always telling me that nobody pays enough tax. His first question to me was - How can you lower my tax bill? I refused to do them. How can someone be so hypocritical? It's the same with the majority - 'Oh people should pay more tax, but not me' - this attitude is killing the country. But the discussion is a vote killer. The tories aren't even close to mentioning tax cuts, and Labour are going after the top earners which will win some votes, but ultimately people have to realise that targeting the rich almost exclusively will have some drawbacks.

 

I think that aside from the very low paid, EVERYONE should be paying more tax. UK income tax rates are too low, and the chronic lack of investment in public services over the past few decades shows this. People can point to the tories taking over as a focal point in that, but it was happening way before that to a lesser extent. It's a tough ship to turn round but it can be done. I have lived in Canada for the last year, and I have to say I am definitely paying more tax than I would have done in the UK. Public services are generally better and infrastructure projects are there for everyone to see.

 

One thing I will say about Corporation Tax, is that there is a fine line between charging too much (Which is when industrial avoidance kicks in) and charging too little. I have noticed (Although not looked in the past couple of years) that as our Corporation Tax rate has reduced, corporation tax receipts have increased. There's a point where it becomes more cost effective to just pay the tax bill, as opposed to paying someone to find intricate loopholes to avoid paying it.

I make some similar points above, and you're absolutely correct in saying that tax increases have always been a "vote killer." And just on pure income tax rates, you are right to say that we are reasonably low down the international league table, but I don't believe you can just look at income tax in isolation.  In addition, we're all paying big amounts in VAT, council tax, wine & beer duties, fuel duties etc., and even on things like insurance--where insurance premium tax has crept up (perhaps leapt up is a better description) from 5% to 12% in the last few years--all items that add to our individual tax bills!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

I make some similar points above, and you're absolutely correct in saying that tax increases have always been a "vote killer." And just on pure income tax rates, you are right to say that we are reasonably low down the international league table, but I don't believe you can just look at income tax in isolation.  In addition, we're all paying big amounts in VAT, council tax, wine & beer duties, fuel duties etc., and even on things like insurance--where insurance premium tax has crept up (perhaps leapt up is a better description) from 5% to 12% in the last few years--all items that add to our individual tax bills!

All Govt spending comes from taxes, avoid income tax increases as people see that in a lump, spread it about where it is not so noticeable. VAT is favourite, it  hits most people. 25% would bring a lot more in. Why should earned income be taxed at a higher rate than unearned income?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, cheshirevaliant said:

The issue with increasing VAT is it doesn't take into account people's ability to pay. 

Very true, I consider 20% too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

We could always make the state smaller and live within our means.

 

Pavements are for walking on not sleeping on, life expectancy is going down, waiting lists are lengthening, the 6th richest country has the means, it is just too mean.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Heatwave said:

Britain is not safe in Tory hands.

So you think it will be safer under Corbyn & Co ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Mario said:

So you think it will be safer under Corbyn & Co ?

After 9 years of deterioration, especially the NHS, under Tory hands, is that a serious question?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Fosse69 said:

After 9 years of deterioration under Tory hands is that a serious question?

No, just wondering, I personally hope Corbyn gets in, it will be wonderful under a Labour administration,4 day week and the same salary,I haven't worked out how the NHS will operate with nurses and ancillary workers only doing half a week, but they must have worked it out so it should be happy days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd prefer some sort of centre-left government if I had the choice but the one thing I'm sure about is that I don't want Johnson and his band of liars, law breakers, charlatans and shysters anywhere near government. They must be the thickest Cabinet in history. Certainly the most unprincipled one. Anyone voting for them needs to give their heads a wobble. 

It isn't an either/or binary choice anyway. Plenty of alternatives, from the Greens, to the Liberals, from the nationalists to Change UK. 

I've been in favour of PR for very many years and that would have stopped all this dead in its tracks and forced politicians to work together and find common ground.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, geosname said:

Has anyone calculated how much has been promised in spending by each party?

Lots of fake news based on estimates of other peoples day dreams, until manifestos are produced with costings a waste of time, just scare tactics. Time is of the essence, is all the money being spent in January, within 5 years, 10 years or never as the project is quietly forgotten as unrealistic or just an election scam. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

After 9 years of deterioration, especially the NHS, under Tory hands, is that a serious question?

National Security might be seriously questioned if Labour ever get in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy