General Erection - 12th December 2019

[For Us All]

20 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

If you want remain so much why not just vote Liberal?

Exactly,this is a Brexit election and they are the Remain Party.

[geosname]

1 minute ago, ginge said:

Many of Labour MPs would support remain in another vote. Hence why theyre advocating a second vote. Greens support the same. The lib dems and greens have plenty of policy differences but they have a pact in some areas- you pointed that out?!  

It's not about what the MPs want it's what the party dictates

[ginge]

15 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

You can’t trust any political party, that has been proven on every Government.

you are going to vote tactically yet you criticise Farage for going in to the elections tactfully as to land Brexit. Bit hypocritical?

I have said on this forum today if I was Farage and wanted to be tactical to get Brexit through, I wouldn't stand in any seat, and let the Tories have a clear run. So no, not hypocritical. 

[Jacko51]

6 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

That's EXACTLY how the democratic process should work:  the most number of votes, whether it be a by-election, a council election, a general election or even a referendum entails that side winning.  Although I was a remain voter in the referendum and, extremely gutted that the leave vote was greater in that election, as a DEMOCRAT I have to accept the verdict of the voters.  It seems to me that anyone arguing for another referendum is not being democratic. Apart from which, what questions would you propose to ask at a 2nd referendum and if that didn't go the way you hope it would (presumably away from Brexit?) would you then argue for another one, then another one until you got your own way forward? Seems to me that you don't have a clue about DEMOCRACY!

As far as lies are concerned, many were told by both sides in the Brexit argument. You're very deluded and naive if you don't realise that all the political parties fighting this election  will be bombarding you with 'spin' and sometimes distorted truths/lies.

The problem we have is our first past the post system.  It means that at every general election we end up with a government that the majority of the electorate do not want.  It also means that in what is basically a two party system, elections become vicious and confrontational.  Time for a change??

[Fosse69]

2 minutes ago, geosname said:

They aren't going solely for Labour voters..... they are just trying to use Labour's "uncertainty" against them

Depends what Labour put in their election spiel, Remain is almost certain to be an option.

[ginge]

1 minute ago, geosname said:

It's not about what the MPs want it's what the party dictates

Most of the shadow cabinet said they would vote remain again.

[geosname]

1 minute ago, ginge said:

So you're not voting either?

It's difficult living in Thailand. 

I would vote for "NONE OF THE ABOVE" if that option was available and I could.

[philpvfc]

And how would you change it?

the Referendum had a simple yes/ no vote, the majority voted for out yet it has not been accepted.

[ginge]

3 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Exactly,this is a Brexit election and they are the Remain Party.

But it shouldn't be a brexit election. This is the point. Why not have another vote to sort that mess out? There are far greater issues than Brexit. Who even talked about Brexit before the referendum as a big issue? What about actual policies? We had an election in 2017. It solved nothing to do with Brexit. 

[ginge]

2 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

And how would you change it?

the Referendum had a simple yes/ no vote, the majority voted for out yet it has not been accepted.

Have a vote on an actual deal. I'm glad we agree the original referendum question was floored.

[geosname]

1 minute ago, ginge said:

Most of the shadow cabinet said they would vote remain again.

What does the party say?

We will negotiate a better deal, call a 2nd referendum then campaign against the better deal we have negotiated?

Will that attract voters?.... does it sound logical?

[ginge]

Just now, geosname said:

What does the party say?

We will negotiate a better deal, call a 2nd referendum then campaign against the better deal we have negotiated?

Will that attract voters?.... does it sound logical?

I would imagine it would be a free vote on the deal. But either way, it'd give a leave option and remain option for the public to vote on. 

[geosname]

2 minutes ago, ginge said:

But it shouldn't be a brexit election. This is the point. Why not have another vote to sort that mess out? There are far greater issues than Brexit. Who even talked about Brexit before the referendum as a big issue? What about actual policies? We had an election in 2017. It solved nothing to do with Brexit. 

I agree it shouldn't be but it will be.

A vote was taken, why not just honour the result?

This is the big issue, it will determine everything we do and how we do it.... if it's ever sorted.

It's a lot quicker to hold an election than a referendum (it's been stated 22 weeks minimum for a referendum).... we have an extension of 13 weeks?

[geosname]

6 minutes ago, ginge said:

I would imagine it would be a free vote on the deal. But either way, it'd give a leave option and remain option for the public to vote on. 

A free vote is irrelevant,  it wouldn't be agreed just negotiated...... then Labour would campaign against the deal in the referendum.... it doesn't make sense.

[philpvfc]

12 minutes ago, ginge said:

But it shouldn't be a brexit election. This is the point. Why not have another vote to sort that mess out? There are far greater issues than Brexit. Who even talked about Brexit before the referendum as a big issue? What about actual policies? We had an election in 2017. It solved nothing to do with Brexit. 

Agree, it shouldn’t just be about Brexit but it will be. Boris couldn’t deliver what the people voted for without a majority so he had no option but to call an election. You have been moaning that he wasn’t elected by the people so don’t complain about there being an election at this time.

personally I would have liked to seen Brexit delivered and then election based on other issues but the Liberals would have crashed so they would never allow it and as long as Brexit is damaging the Government Corbyn will string it out.