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mr.hobblesworth

General Erection - 12th December 2019

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1 hour ago, bobvale said:

So who would you suggest? Many of Labours policies were generally popular (although I think there was probably too much of them) and they got as many votes as under tony blair back in 2005. I think it is wrong to throw away the baby with the bath water and lurch towards the middle. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that labour would have done better there. it has become some kind of rescieved wisdom (although not very wise!) to say that. People complaining about labour losing their touch with the working class and also wanting a blair style leader seem to be contradiciting myself in my eyes at least. The result is done, fair and square, and it's silly to offer ifs and buts and things. But I wonder what would have happened if Brexit had been done before the election.

 

I also think that the campaign it self is very worrying, especialy from the right wing. I think the bbc has shown itself to be unfit. most of all I think that the type of campaign we have seen is very worrying in that there have been lies and slurs pushed so much by the conservatives. I'm not talking about the fibs about policies that all partys do, but the things like editing videos, fake tweeting accounts and spreading rumours that that little boy lying asleep on the hospital floor was made up. Oh and that the labour people punched the tory outside that hospital too. I think this is very bad but can not imagine it ever stopping now. I think we need laws to keep election campaigns as honest as possible but I do not believe this will happen when the main people doing it are now in charge for 5 years. Why would they want more honesty and less lies when it has done so well for them?

Bob, I haven’t got a scooby.  I don’t know many politicians other than those who’ve stuck their head above the parapet and have sided with Corbyn. I certainly wouldn’t choose Rayner as her claim to fame is the fact that she’s the youngest grandmother in the House of Commons. Great, what an honour. As well as being to close to Corbyn she’s too close to Andy Burnham, not my cup of tea, but each to their own. It’s all about opinions and respecting the opinions of others.
In a previous post I suggested Hillary Benn due to two speeches that he gave. One made him unpopular with labour leaders when he suggested carrying out air raids against ISIS and the other when he put Boris in his place over trying to push through Brexit.

A middle of the road man with Labour Party roots in his family, common sense and intelligence.

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3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

You can’t agree with me, Bill. I’m loony left don’t ya know!

The celebration champagne must have gone to my head!! At least we can now get on with the serious stuff and 3 points at Crawley tomorrow! Have a good weekend.

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40 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

The celebration champagne must have gone to my head!! At least we can now get on with the serious stuff and 3 points at Crawley tomorrow! Have a good weekend.

I’m in Crawley as we speak!!  Here is one of our new Tory MPs. I trust his activities will be plastered all over the Daily Mail. 
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.chad.co.uk/news/politics/ashfield-conservative-candidate-being-investigated-over-alleged-antisemitism-1-10148766/amp

 

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Sturgeon wants another referendum for Scottish independence,why dont the SNP fund a referendum themselves and find out whether there is the appetite for such a ballot ?

Personally I would give them full independence as soon as possible, they don't seem happy, they want to go alone let them them have a crack with say no coming back for 50 years.

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23 minutes ago, Mario said:

Sturgeon wants another referendum for Scottish independence,why dont the SNP fund a referendum themselves and find out whether there is the appetite for such a ballot ?

Personally I would give them full independence as soon as possible, they don't seem happy, they want to go alone let them them have a crack with say no coming back for 50 years.

The SNP only got 45% of the Scottish vote so would they win a referendum?

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It would be a Neverendum.. Otherwise known as that 'once in a lifetime thing' ...as long as it goes the SNP way, that is.  Interstingly, for me anyway, was the fact that their last vote was the first time a country had been offered a chance to vote for independence and had voted it down. Besides, I think the SNP have been deliberately conflating two different things from two very different referenda. 

The fact is there are too many MP's representing Scotland. Per head of the vote they end up over-represented by quite a way. One and a half million voters end up with 40-odd MP's which is well over the odds. As such, majorities in their constituencies turn on very small margins of a few hundred people. Of course, the media will do what it can to put focus on this problem of Indyref2 ....most of them looked as if they had acute indigestion last night from having to swallow the Tory victory so they find this distracts them. 

Coming up soon is the Salmond trial. It won't do a lot for the image of the party. Especially if, as suspected, the SNP did a 'Vatican' and actively hushed it up.  A lot of dirty linen will be washed in public. 

As for Indy itself.....I can't see the EU welcoming them with open arms. They may have postured about it when it looked like Brexit may not happen. Now that it certainly will then Scotland becomes more of a problem than an asset. (Ditto Ireland) I can't see Spain and other EU countries with a similar issue (e.g. Catalonia) wanting to have that kind of example. It would cause a lot of trouble. (I think the Scots get a bit centric about their own importance where the EU is concerned) 

they voted to stay in the UK. Then the UK voted to leave the EU. If they want another vote on staying with the UK that is Ok...as long as they also accept that the rest of the UK can have a vote on whether we want them to stay.

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The SNP was a leave ticket not remain 😜

Labour was a make your mind up later but leave if you want to ticket.

SNP was a remain ticket..... they lost seats.

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39 minutes ago, ginge said:

52 percent of us voted for remain parties. The public have spoken! After all, nobody can give a benefit that Brexit will have on our lives.

HOW MANY VOTES DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

 

come on ginge, it's getting silly now.

Edited by Regal Beagle
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I stated early in the brexit thread that I would prefer to remain and a big concern for me was the political fallout of not honouring the referendum result....... and so it begins.

A lot was made of Labour's increased membership numbers, perhaps part of Labour's problem was assuming members would automatically vote for them, another part of the problem is assuming their loss is all about brexit and not openly identifying the wider problems.

A big problem they have now is their inability to hold the Tories back, even if all the other parties joined they don't have enough votes to hold the Tories accountable, there is no effective opposition. They have to rely on Tory dissenters,  which after a big confidence boosting win is extremely unlikely.

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It's probably time to close this thread now, accept the result and move on.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating in the next few years to come and at least we now have an administration that can get things done.

 

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9 minutes ago, TheSage said:

It's probably time to close this thread now, accept the result and move on.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating in the next few years to come and at least we now have an administration that can get things done.

 

You should have done that in 2016 and avoided this embarrassment for Labour.

When the post mortem takes place they need to learn a few things of why they lost so heavily and not blame everything on the media,the nasty tories and the weather.

I believe it was their worst performance since 1935 and they need to stop listening to the Momentum mob and move quickly to the centre ground.

It worked for Blair.

 

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I wonder if all the good folk on here having a go at momentum have ever met any of there people? My niece's daughter is in Momentum and she's not a communist. She and her friends took holidays and unpayed leave (she has to work over the Christmas holidays now) so she could go and knock on people's doors in towns all over the north west. My sister tells me that she'd often get home soaked through and freezing cold and she was doing this not for herself but because she truely believes in making the country a better place for those who need it. You may disagree with her ideaology but it fills my heart with pride. 

It was blair and those who wanted to ignore the leavers who got labour where they are today.

Edited by bobvale

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If the Labour Party leadership persists in saying they lost because of Brexit nothing will change. I agree their policy on Brexit was waffley and too much on the fence but it is undoubtedly true that Corbyn’s leadership - or lack of it - had a huge effect. The post election polls show that clearly. 
 

With regard to this being Labour’s worst performance since 1935, that’s only true in terms of seats. Michael Foot got a much smaller percentage of the vote in 1983 and only 6 seats more, despite the lack of a strong SNP in Scotland at the time. 
 

Blair wiped the floor with the Tories three times. In 2005 the Tories won less seats than Corbyn’s Labour yet they were in government five years later because they learnt from their mistakes. 
 

You can have the best policies in the world in your view but if you can’t win elections no one cares. 

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2 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

If the Labour Party leadership persists in saying they lost because of Brexit nothing will change. I agree their policy on Brexit was waffley and too much on the fence but it is undoubtedly true that Corbyn’s leadership - or lack of it - had a huge effect. The post election polls show that clearly. 
 

With regard to this being Labour’s worst performance since 1935, that’s only true in terms of seats. Michael Foot got a much smaller percentage of the vote in 1983 and only 6 seats more, despite the lack of a strong SNP in Scotland at the time. 
 

Blair wiped the floor with the Tories three times. In 2005 the Tories won less seats than Corbyn’s Labour yet they were in government five years later because they learnt from their mistakes. 
 

You can have the best policies in the world in your view but if you can’t win elections no one cares. 

Well said,is four successive election defeats a record?

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1 minute ago, For Us All said:

Well said,is four successive election defeats a record?

No. Labour lost in ‘79, ‘83, ‘87 and ‘92. The Liberals lost every one after WW1 despite winning a huge majority in 1906.   The Tories lost four out of five between 1964 and 1974. 

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1 hour ago, bobvale said:

I wonder if all the good folk on here having a go at momentum have ever met any of there people? My niece's daughter is in Momentum and she's not a communist. She and her friends took holidays and unpayed leave (she has to work over the Christmas holidays now) so she could go and knock on people's doors in towns all over the north west. My sister tells me that she'd often get home soaked through and freezing cold and she was doing this not for herself but because she truely believes in making the country a better place for those who need it. You may disagree with her ideaology but it fills my heart with pride. 

It was blair and those who wanted to ignore the leavers who got labour where they are today.

It was Blair who got us reelected. Don't disagree that Momentum people are nice dedicated people. But they are on a different page than the electorate.

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