General Erection - 12th December 2019

[TheSage]

5 hours ago, Mario said:

I was going to mention about GP's but I thought I would get shouted down, a neighbour of mine was a GP and he confessed to me that the extra money given to him by "His mate Blair" would mean at his age he could afford to reduce his working day down to 3 days a week and then in 4 years retire,when I asked him who would take up the slack he said he didn't know.

He also said a lot of his colleagues had/were going to take advantage,he said thats why when you go to the surgery you see that their might be 8 GP's but only say 5 working on any given day. 

I think that by throwing money at a problem and automatically expecting greater productivity, due to human nature is a flawed concept.

I think it's short sighted to blame ALL the faults of the NHS on the Conservatives, Labour have played their part as well.

With a growing aged population and a growing population, the NHS is a problem that is going to need some out of the box solutions whoever gets the keys to No 10.

I wish some of you would stop trying to blame Labour and what happened 22 years ago for the crisis in the NHS in 2019. It's a good try but a travesty of justice.

Adjusting for population growth, the average GDP growth per person spending on the NHS between 1950 and 2016 was 3.3%. But it was only 0.6% from 2010 to 2017!! That's all you need to know.

We simply haven't invested enough in the NHS to keep pace with demand. Ask the BMA. Ask GPs. Ask the RCN. Read the King's Fund report. Read fact check websites. And for once accept the truth of what has been happening and admit the Tories should have done more instead of posting anecdotal evidence, blaming it on Blair, and saying it's everyone else's fault. 

Look up the figures. GDP % spending on health, 2010-2019. Then compare it to what happened under Blair and since 1945. And then post me your answers. Blimey, I'll need the A&E if I read any more evasive side-tracking on here. 😲

https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-generous-have-the-conservatives-been-with-the-nhs

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/R143.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[Jacko51]

4 hours ago, For Us All said:

£154.50

A lot cheaper than Sky!

[Mario]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I wish some of you would stop trying to blame Labour and what happened 22 years ago for the crisis in the NHS in 2019. It's a good try but a travesty of justice.

Adjusting for population growth, the average GDP growth per person spending on the NHS between 1950 and 2016 was 3.3%. But it was only 0.6% from 2010 to 2017!! That's all you need to know.

We simply haven't invested enough in the NHS to keep pace with demand. Ask the BMA. Ask GPs. Ask the RCN. Read the King's Fund report. Read fact check websites. And for once accept the truth of what has been happening and admit the Tories should have done more instead of posting anecdotal evidence, blaming it on Blair, and saying it's everyone else's fault. 

Look up the figures. GDP % spending on health, 2010-2019. Then compare it to what happened under Blair and since 1945. And then post me your answers. Blimey, I'll need the A&E if I read any more evasive side-tracking on here. 😲

https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-generous-have-the-conservatives-been-with-the-nhs

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/R143.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Sage,just pointing out what I was told by a respected community GP.I didnt touch on his views on PFI that might have been 22 years ago but will take a long long time to pay off in the future.

Any way calm down now, it's all over bar the shouting and a look forward to a hung parliament and even more hand wringing.

[Joe B]

Despite all my misgivings, doubts, and concerns, I have come to the late decision that I will be voting Labour tomorrow.

If you'd asked me a week ago I was sure I wouldn't be voting for Corbyn, but the last week with the hiding in the fridge, bottling the Neil interview, and the snatching the phone when asked about the lad in A&E, have really focused in on what a inadequate man for the job Johnson is. He's really not a good bloke, and a worse potential PM.

I don't think Corbyn is a great deal better, but his manifesto solves more of the country's issues than the Conservatives (once again, I have a few misgivings; Corbyn will probably cause a few more issues that need to be solved down the line but I've rationalised it that it'll be a better overall picture than if the Conservatives continue their inaction on public services).

Hopefully enough swing late in the manner I have done to deny Johnson of a majority. I'd probably be most chuffed with a hung parliament but with both leaders resigning.

[Jacko51]

In Stoke Central I shall not be voting FOR someone but rather AGAINST the party which I think is the worse of two bad jobs.

[Jacko51]

Peter Oborne is a live long Conservative.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/11/boris-johnson-destroy-britain-conservative-revolutionary-sect

[Regal Beagle]

3 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

It doesnt work like that under a skewed Tory economy during 10 years of austerity.

You keep hinting at immigration being the problem so why not just say it?

 

There's no hidden agenda behind my post. I'm not trying to mask a heinous view of immigrants or anyone else. I do think our lack of immigration policies is a problem and that a sensible immigration policy which ensures a balance and can be tweaked and adjusted as we go will be beneficial.

I also believe that a rapidly increasing population is not particularly sensible when our public services and infrastructure is already creaking under pressure.

It is interesting how people can be so vocal and claim to be so passionate about the NHS yet don't see that a 10-15% increase in population over 20 years would cause a huge strain, especially when we have very little in the way of checks and balances.

[Regal Beagle]

3 hours ago, TheSage said:

I wish some of you would stop trying to blame Labour and what happened 22 years ago for the crisis in the NHS in 2019. It's a good try but a travesty of justice.

Adjusting for population growth, the average GDP growth per person spending on the NHS between 1950 and 2016 was 3.3%. But it was only 0.6% from 2010 to 2017!! That's all you need to know.

We simply haven't invested enough in the NHS to keep pace with demand. Ask the BMA. Ask GPs. Ask the RCN. Read the King's Fund report. Read fact check websites. And for once accept the truth of what has been happening and admit the Tories should have done more instead of posting anecdotal evidence, blaming it on Blair, and saying it's everyone else's fault. 

Look up the figures. GDP % spending on health, 2010-2019. Then compare it to what happened under Blair and since 1945. And then post me your answers. Blimey, I'll need the A&E if I read any more evasive side-tracking on here. 😲

https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-generous-have-the-conservatives-been-with-the-nhs

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/R143.pdf

 

You do understand that we can't afford the level of spending that Labour implemented?

That is a very important point.

 

That's not sidetracking. It's literally the answer to what you are asking.

[The_godfather]

53 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

You do understand that we can't afford the level of spending that Labour implemented?

That is a very important point.

 

That's not sidetracking. It's literally the answer to what you are asking.

Who came to that conclusion? And on what basis?

[TheSage]

9 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

You do understand that we can't afford the level of spending that Labour implemented?

That is a very important point.

 

That's not sidetracking. It's literally the answer to what you are asking.

On average we spent around 3.3% GDP on the NHS since its inception - forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, noughties, good times, bad times. 

Over the last few years under the Tories it's been 0.6%. How difficult is it to understand that? 

We can't afford not to prevent 5500 people dying on trolleys since 2016, or patients facing record waiting times for cancer treatment or queuing up for hours at A&E!! Blimey, what kind of a country do we live in?

We are the 5th-6th richest country in the world. 

 

[tommytunstall]

16 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

The sad truth FUA.

 

One side of the debate is called heartless, sadistic tyrants for wanting to leave within our means.

 

The other side of the debate demands unlimited spending and spiralling debt.

 

The cannot answer the fundamental question - HOW WILL WE AFFORD IT.

 

We're still paying off debt from 20 years ago. The answer to that is not to go on a mad spending spree and criticise "austerity" at every turn.

If I can't afford something I don't buy it. I honestly believe that the country should be ran in a similar way.

 

We can't afford to leave the EU with a no deal, it will cost us millions, that is a proven fact, not as you deal in proven facts. But that is where the Buffoon is taking us.

[philpvfc]

1 hour ago, TheSage said:

On average we spent around 3.3% GDP on the NHS since its inception - forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, noughties, good times, bad times. 

Over the last few years under the Tories it's been 0.6%. How difficult is it to understand that? 

We can't afford not to prevent 5500 people dying on trolleys since 2016, or patients facing record waiting times for cancer treatment or queuing up for hours at A&E!! Blimey, what kind of a country do we live in?

We are the 5th-6th richest country in the world. 

 

You come up with some crazy figures!. Where do you get 0.6% from? We spend well over 9% of our GDP on healthcare. The NHS is the 4th biggest employer in the world.

America spends the highest GDP on healthcare by a mile, is that the health service you want?

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

[philpvfc]

24 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

We can't afford to leave the EU with a no deal, it will cost us millions, that is a proven fact, not as you deal in proven facts. But that is where the Buffoon is taking us.

No he’s not, he has called an election to gain a majority so Parliament will vote for his deal. The greatest risk of a no deal is another hung parliament because if he cannot get his deal through there is a chance the EU will not grant us another extension.

[Bycarsbill]

11 hours ago, The_godfather said:

Who came to that conclusion? And on what basis?

History--check the details and facts for yourself.  And virtually every economic text book and rational commentator.  And that's under 'normal' Labour administrations, not the most left-wing socialist agenda planned by Corbyn & McDonnell that would bankrupt the country and cause future economic problems for years. 

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, TheSage said:

On average we spent around 3.3% GDP on the NHS since its inception - forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, noughties, good times, bad times. 

Over the last few years under the Tories it's been 0.6%. How difficult is it to understand that? 

We can't afford not to prevent 5500 people dying on trolleys since 2016, or patients facing record waiting times for cancer treatment or queuing up for hours at A&E!! Blimey, what kind of a country do we live in?

We are the 5th-6th richest country in the world. 

 

Wow, what's happening to the rational part of your brain?  I've always thought that despite our opposite views, you usually post sensible and factual comments. Unfortunately, wherever you got the figures from, you're miles off the truth of what the country spends on the NHS as a percentage of GDP.  And, as we're trying to deal in FACTs, spending on the NHS has gone up every year since 2010--check it out. So god knows how you came to make this spurious claim? 

Refer to my earlier posts regarding the interest/contract costs of PFI (brought in by Labour) that are costing the NHS annually around £90 billion. You and the other lefties don't really understand that Labour's profligacy during office is still costing us dearly as it always does.  Wonderful when the cash is being splashed, but eventually the bills always catch us up.  It will be no different if (God forbid) Corbyn gets into No. 10.  No, amend that, it will be different because the bills will arrive much earlier, hitting the economy almost immediately as traders ditch the £Sterling and McDonnell is forced into bringing in exchange controls.  The amount of economic illiteracy on this site from certain people is absolutely amazing and frightening!