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General Erection - 12th December 2019


mr.hobblesworth

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48 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Is that why Labour has "locked up" Diane Abbott, Emily Thornberry & Kier Starmer and a load of other shadow front benchers? Boris has done 118 sit-down interviews plus the 2 direct head-to-heads with Jeremy.  Every Labour rally we see Jezza attending is carefully stage-managed--that's the nature of electioneering. Surprised & disappointed that you of all people has now started to share in the 'conspiracy theories' that I normally associate with Mr. H, Nofinikea and the other usual suspect lefties!

Hats off to the Labour 15 for supporting everything anti-Corbyn.

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I tend to agree with the general thrust of your comment. We are not far apart. Naturally I'd prefer a hung parliament (Corbyn hasn't a chance on his own), a people's vote and a sustained programme of investment to attack austerity and revive the NHS and public services. That would tame Corbyn. I think/hope Corbyn would soon go. He can't continue for much longer. And the ruthless Tories would ditch Johnson. My fear though is that Labour will stick with hard leftie and the Tories with a hard right leader and we'll continue this polarisation and nasty political discourse for years to come.

Ideally - tongue in cheek - I'd like a government of Grieve, Clarke, Starmer, Cooper, Swinson, Cable, Lucas, Stewart & Burnham, taking advice from Major, Heseltine & Blair.

A centre government would suit me fine and I want a system of PR to prevent what is now happening.

But I also want a villa in Nice, one of those brand new Tesla cars and a date with Liz Hurley, but I doubt it'll happen. 

Who would Labour get hung with ☺️.... sorry couldn't resist.

The cost of a hung parliament for Labour would be to expensive... for Labour.

Lib dems would want brexit cancelled..... SNP would want an Indy referendum.... either would cause Labour problems..... and jezza would be in office for quite a while.

I can't see anyone getting hung with the Tories.

I tried to create a situation that would activate the reset button. 

I don't mind losing Scotland but which party would want the accolade of being the "party that split the union"

Both parties have somewhat of a dilemma..... if jezza loses he will be known as the guy who couldn't beat the buffoon.... vise versa with the tories.

Of course all parties will claim victory of something, as they usually do, we got more seats than last time, it shows what Scotland wants, we increased our vote share etc etc.

The far left will cripple the country..... the far right will decimate the country..... with the long suffering public shell shocked between the two.

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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

I suspect that's right and I don't support that at all. Fair point. But the current lot have had 10 years in power so what have they done about it?

We can't keep blaming what occurred 22 years ago on the state of the NHS in 2019. Surely to goodness 10 years in power is long enough to start addressing these issues but everything has got much much worse! We didn't have the NHS missing all their key targets back then and overall the NHS was in a far better state then than now. Labour invested in it. It was a golden age for the NHS then.

According to the Independent,do you know how long it will take to finish paying off these PFI's?It will take another 30 years after which time we will have paid out around £307 billion,which apparently is five times more than the assets are worth.

Even Jezza has criticised Blair and Brown for their "unsustainable" handling of the economy and their "legacy of PFI debt" when they were in power.

And you think it was a "golden age for the NHS"?

We'll be paying for their poor decisions for years to come.

Apparently,a school which was built in Liverpool in 2004 was closed a decade later.It is now costing Liverpool council £12,000 a day due to the terms of 25 year PFI contract.

 

 

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1 hour ago, For Us All said:

He's better off knocking on doors and visiting families after threatening to scrap the BBC licence.

That's another vote winner.

Disagree, he would reach a wider audience by being interviewed. They are playing it safe and it will cost them a few seats. The public deserve to listen to all the leaders being quizzed. There may be a valid reason for him not turning up, unlikely but if there is then they need to give the reason.

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2 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

The problem is that the PFI initaitives took the investment 'off-book' which suited Brown and his economic manipulations, but like a mortgage (which these effectively were) you have to keep paying in the long-term and that £90 billion interest/contract annual charge as the oncology professor pointed out, could do a lot to alleviate some of the worst gaps in staff, beds & treatment.  But just like any long term borrowing, it is not that easy to mitigate--whoever has the debt has to service it and this was passed on from the Blair/Brown governments. We'll still be paying back the debt for many years to yet come whichever colour of government is in charge!

I shouldn't worry Bill, if Corbyn gets in all the PFIs will be nationalised. 

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1 hour ago, geosname said:

Who would Labour get hung with ☺️.... sorry couldn't resist.

The cost of a hung parliament for Labour would be to expensive... for Labour.

Lib dems would want brexit cancelled..... SNP would want an Indy referendum.... either would cause Labour problems..... and jezza would be in office for quite a while.

I can't see anyone getting hung with the Tories.

I tried to create a situation that would activate the reset button. 

I don't mind losing Scotland but which party would want the accolade of being the "party that split the union"

Both parties have somewhat of a dilemma..... if jezza loses he will be known as the guy who couldn't beat the buffoon.... vise versa with the tories.

Of course all parties will claim victory of something, as they usually do, we got more seats than last time, it shows what Scotland wants, we increased our vote share etc etc.

The far left will cripple the country..... the far right will decimate the country..... with the long suffering public shell shocked between the two.

The result of the election will be down to who has the most friends.

If Professor Sir John Curtice is right and both main parties end up on 250 seats each, then it's down to who your friends are and whether they sign up  to a confidence and supply arrangement or even a formal coalition. On the face of it Labour has rather more friends than the Conservatives and in that scenario could form the next government. 

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9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Yes it is likely that alot are low income workers as we have built a low income, high cost of living economy to ensure the wealthy get an easy ride 

I would say alot are also children who should contribute in the future 

You quite dramatically said you didnt want this being about immigration but then talk about the immigration debate.  

Are you saying that 8.5M extra population are mostly immigrants and if so are you assuming most of then are not contributing?  Nett immigration for the 22 years since 1997 is nowhere near 8.5M and even less from within the EU.  

Again, I would argue that a rise in population should equal a rise in revenue so services should not suffer.  Of course if you have a rise in population at the same time as a 10 year period of austerity (which only seemed to effect the low income / vulnerable / sick and elderly) then you are creating a perfect storm, perhaps one so perfect that the only viable option  would be to accept private investment...

That's not how it works though, it doesn't just scale up unless the conditions are perfect and the exact balance of  workers/dependents and the different incomes was achieved.

 

The british fertility rate is around 1.7-1.8 depending on what figures you choose to believe. So the population should actually be falling over the long term, not increasing dramatically.

 

 

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

According to the Independent,do you know how long it will take to finish paying off these PFI's?It will take another 30 years after which time we will have paid out around £307 billion,which apparently is five times more than the assets are worth.

Even Jezza has criticised Blair and Brown for their "unsustainable" handling of the economy and their "legacy of PFI debt" when they were in power.

And you think it was a "golden age for the NHS"?

We'll be paying for their poor decisions for years to come.

Apparently,a school which was built in Liverpool in 2004 was closed a decade later.It is now costing Liverpool council £12,000 a day due to the terms of 25 year PFI contract.

 

 

The sad truth FUA.

 

One side of the debate is called heartless, sadistic tyrants for wanting to leave within our means.

 

The other side of the debate demands unlimited spending and spiralling debt.

 

The cannot answer the fundamental question - HOW WILL WE AFFORD IT.

 

We're still paying off debt from 20 years ago. The answer to that is not to go on a mad spending spree and criticise "austerity" at every turn.

If I can't afford something I don't buy it. I honestly believe that the country should be ran in a similar way.

 

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3 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Is that why Labour has "locked up" Diane Abbott, Emily Thornberry & Kier Starmer and a load of other shadow front benchers? Boris has done 118 sit-down interviews plus the 2 direct head-to-heads with Jeremy.  Every Labour rally we see Jezza attending is carefully stage-managed--that's the nature of electioneering. Surprised & disappointed that you of all people has now started to share in the 'conspiracy theories' that I normally associate with Mr. H, Nofinikea and the other usual suspect lefties!

I'm not saying that Labour haven't kept the likes of Abbott and Cooper away from public view. They clearly have.

But you know as well as I do why the Tories chose Sunday to launch their manifesto and why it was deliberately short and vague. It was to get it out asap with the minimum of scrutiny and the less detail, the less pointed questions they face. It was crystal clear why they did that. No other party did it. A Sunday afternoon. Come on! It's no conspiracy but a fact. Tell me when other governing parties have published their manifesto last, on a quiet Sunday, and it was as short as that one. Never.

Of course parties plan their visits but Johnson deliberately avoided Neill and you know that as well - he avoided the rottweiler because his aids feared for his responses. He avoided C4. He avoided Newsnight. He refused to attend the important climate change debate. He sent his dad! He often turns up out of the blue and has had to cancel walkabouts because he's scared. All parties stage manage it to some extent, of course, but not like he's done. Blimey, anyone can do a comfy tete a tete on afternoon TV or a selfie with Holly.

But he's run away from scrutiny because he's a buffoon and Cummings knows it. Damage limitation. Steer clear of the public. Look what a shambles he's made of visiting Yorkshire after the floods and going to hospitals and ignoring sick children.

The facts are that Johnson has spent nearly all his time in safe Tory seats. Corbyn has spent his time equally split but slightly more in Tory seats in the last week. Ponder those facts.

Don't believe everything you read in the Times. It's owned by Murdoch who bankrolls the Tory Party.

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2 hours ago, Heatwave said:

The result of the election will be down to who has the most friends.

If Professor Sir John Curtice is right and both main parties end up on 250 seats each, then it's down to who your friends are and whether they sign up  to a confidence and supply arrangement or even a formal coalition. On the face of it Labour has rather more friends than the Conservatives and in that scenario could form the next government. 

Friends and politics.... now there is a novilty act if ever I saw one.

There are no friendships between political parties, it's who you can buy and for what price you are willing to pay... or sacrifice.... to get and keep control.

Will Labour or the lib dems sacrifice their brexit stance?...... Will Labour or the SNP give up the Indy ref?..... the Tories don't have friends anymore so it's all in with them but will the lib dems capitulate..... again?

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