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General Erection - 12th December 2019


mr.hobblesworth

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17 hours ago, Bycarsbill said:

Just give me one example of a successful socialist/communist regime and you might convince me.

I'm surprised you have become a fully paid up member of Cummings' hard right propaganda campaign.

It's ridiculously silly to start using words like communist to describe the Labour manifesto. Making up nonsense, talking about Stalin who murdered millions of people and comparing him to Corbyn does your case no good at all. I might as well retort by saying the Tories are fascists and show me a fascist regime that hasn't ended badly. We can't elect Johnson or Rabb. It'd be like electing Hitler and Goering. It's completely childish and silly. 

The 45 Labour government was a socialist government. Fact. It was a very successful government, by general consensus the most successful government we've had since the War. Another fact. Setting up the NHS and free education were marvellous achievements and have lasted to this day. But if you think it wasn't a successful administration and doesn't have achievements to its name then you are telling porkies and ignoring the facts. 

Take a look at some of the Scandinavian countries. Mixed economies but heavy state intervention Very successful and in many cases higher and better living standards than we have here.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all stuck to factual reality?

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Yet again those on the right on here who struggle to accept the truth and rely on the Mail and Boris Johnson for their "facts" spend all their time smearing and mud slinging in preference to debating reality and discussing the facts in a rationale way. But I suppose it's hard to do that if you don't have a leg to stand on.

The Tories have had ten years in power so it's about time they accepted their responsibilities and stopped blaming everyone else, from Corbyn to the EU, Sturgeon to immigrants. But it's all they do.

Every time they profess to come up with a fact it's fake nonsense and a pack of lies. Or so hilarious it doesn't cut the mustard.

No border in the Irish Sea. Cobblers. 40 new hospitals. Garbage. If Labour had said things like that the biased right wing media would be all over it like a rash. And the hard right on here would be purple in the face with outrage. They are all lies. You know it and I know it.

The leaflet I got through my door yesterday said that the Tories will increase police numbers by 20,000. No <ovf censored> Sherlock. They've cut numbers by 21,000 while being in power. 

It's completely disingenuous, like the new nurses and all their other policies that are un-costed and hidden from scrutiny.

Forget the last ten years of running down the country and leaving the NHS in crisis. Air brush that from history and trust every word the Tories say. Good luck with that. 

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Sinn Fein's abstention isn't anything to do with the Conservatives/Labour/any other party. It stems from a fundamental belief that the island of Ireland shouldn't be governed from London. They are elected not to take their seats in Westminster. Therefore, we can probably safely say that they would have nothing to do with a Corbyn administration, or any other administration for that matter. 

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57 minutes ago, TheSage said:

I'm surprised you have become a fully paid up member of Cummings' hard right propaganda campaign.

It's ridiculously silly to start using words like communist to describe the Labour manifesto. Making up nonsense, talking about Stalin who murdered millions of people and comparing him to Corbyn does your case no good at all. I might as well retort by saying the Tories are fascists and show me a fascist regime that hasn't ended badly. We can't elect Johnson or Rabb. It'd be like electing Hitler and Goering. It's completely childish and silly. 

The 45 Labour government was a socialist government. Fact. It was a very successful government, by general consensus the most successful government we've had since the War. Another fact. Setting up the NHS and free education were marvellous achievements and have lasted to this day. But if you think it wasn't a successful administration and doesn't have achievements to its name then you are telling porkies and ignoring the facts. 

Take a look at some of the Scandinavian countries. Mixed economies but heavy state intervention Very successful and in many cases higher and better living standards than we have here.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all stuck to factual reality?

It certainly would,remember the 70's.

Confirmation of nationalisations of the railways,the Royal Mail,energy suppliers and water companies at a cost of £196billion would send the £ plummeting.These firms would become union dominated,serving workers needs and not customers.Remember the 70's?Investment and pension funds will be at risk if the shareholders of these companies are not properly compensated.

You can understand why Labour are offering freebies to anyone under the age of 40.

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10 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I note there are very few responses to this from the usual suspects??

What’s there to debate?

he didn’t punch him and it’s the Metro or ITV who are accusing the Tory leadership of saying this but tbf the guy slapped may well have thought he was punched and claimed that so even if they did it would be only what was reported. 

Difficult to know what is true there is so much false news getting reported.

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20 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

What’s there to debate?

he didn’t punch him and it’s the Metro or ITV who are accusing the Tory leadership of saying this but tbf the guy slapped may well have thought he was punched and claimed that so even if they did it would be only what was reported. 

Difficult to know what is true there is so much false news getting reported.

Robert Peston and Laura Kuensberg both tweeted that two leading Tories had told them that the bloke had been punched.  The video shows that this is absolute rubbish.  Peston and Kuensberg later apologised for reporting this without checking but neither has stated which leading Tories had briefed them with this fake news.  This is not the Tory leadership being accused of something they didn't do - it is leading members of the Tory party giving out fake news to well known journalists and being found out.

If you want to have a look at how this fake news as deliberately spread, you can have a look at this analysis of how the tweets were spread.

 

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

I'm surprised you have become a fully paid up member of Cummings' hard right propaganda campaign.

It's ridiculously silly to start using words like communist to describe the Labour manifesto. Making up nonsense, talking about Stalin who murdered millions of people and comparing him to Corbyn does your case no good at all. I might as well retort by saying the Tories are fascists and show me a fascist regime that hasn't ended badly. We can't elect Johnson or Rabb. It'd be like electing Hitler and Goering. It's completely childish and silly. 

The 45 Labour government was a socialist government. Fact. It was a very successful government, by general consensus the most successful government we've had since the War. Another fact. Setting up the NHS and free education were marvellous achievements and have lasted to this day. But if you think it wasn't a successful administration and doesn't have achievements to its name then you are telling porkies and ignoring the facts. 

Take a look at some of the Scandinavian countries. Mixed economies but heavy state intervention Very successful and in many cases higher and better living standards than we have here.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all stuck to factual reality?

I'm no fan of Cummings--I voted remain don't forget! The "typo Stalin/Lennin" was a tongue-in-cheek attempt at a bit of levity--but you've possibly jumped on this because it touched a raw nerve? Corbyn & McDonnell are on the record as admiring hard-left Marxist leaders and McDonnell even waved Mao's little red book when he was at the despatch box in Parliament!

I accept that the '45 post-war Labour government did do some good things, The Attlee government greatly expanded the welfare state, with the National Health Service Act 1946, which nationalised the hospitals and provided for free universal healthcare. The National Insurance Act 1946 provided sickness and unemployment benefits for adults, plus retirement pensions. The National Assistance Act 1948 provided a safety net for anyone not otherwise covered. More council housing was built, and plans were made through the New Towns Act of 1946 for the growth of suburbs, and to reduce overcrowding in major cities such as London and Glasgow.

But in reality you can hardly describe it as a socialist regime.  This was literally at the end of WWII and the country had been decimated both emotionally & financially and there was a much more open willingness for all sides of the political spectrum to work together for the good of the country.  Since there was little money for detailed planning, the government adopted Keynesianism, which allowed for planning in the sense of overall control of the national deficit and surplus. Two laws written by the Conservatives during the war were expanded, the Family Allowances Act 1945 and the Education Act 1944.

However, It was an "age of austerity," as wartime rationing was continued despite the Allied Forces' victory, and was even expanded upon to include bread. Living conditions were poor, instead of expansion, it was a matter of replacing the national wealth destroyed or used up during the war. Rationing (as I can personally attest to) was not ended until 1955 and as you can see above, not only did Labour adopt Keynesian economics(which McDonnell is now promising to jettison) but they enacted the Family allowance Act 1945 and the Education Act 1944 which had been introduced by the previous Conservative government--by no stretch of the imagination could this government (who I concede did do many good things) be described as "Socialist".

There you are some "factual reality."  I'm still awaiting the factual reality of you or anyone else nominating a socialist/communist regime that has been successful historically anywhere in the world?

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32 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

A) I’m not a Tory

B) not shutting down the debate, I just found the old guy funnier than the slap.

he slapped the guy by accident. Deserved a slap himself if you ask me.

I never said you were a Tory - I was referring to the guy in the video whom your post mentioned.

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