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General Erection - 12th December 2019


mr.hobblesworth

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19 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I took part in some focus group/ market research event for the Times on Saturday and one guy was opining that we don't have a sensible moderate Labour leader that he could get behind. he stated that if we had one, we would be thrashing the tories. I said 'what, like Ed Miliband or Gordon Brown?' and he said 'yeah' but then went quiet. I'm not sure what people think a centrist Labour leader would achieve, it's not like Jo Swinson's lot are hoovering up any votes. In fact, they're shipping loads of votes to "cretin" Corbyn's Labour Party. I also question what people want from the Labour Party. Do you want a party that fights it's <ovf censored> backside off to stick up for the poor and vulnerable or do you want them to ignore those people and be terrified of rocking the boat and upsetting the Murdoch papers? Neoliberalism isn't working and we don't need a supposedly Socialist party manning the life support machine.

We want a Labour Party that can get in power. That will never happen with Corbyn as leader. He is an embarrassment. You call Blair, Brown, and co traitors, but they and the Labour Party contained politicians, not protest leaders and ditherers. Get rid of Corbyn and co, and also rid the constituencys  of Momentum, then we may get a party capable of challenging the Tories.

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28 minutes ago, Mario said:

I have often wondered what would happen if an outside agency bought into the NHS and you could see a vast improvement, would patients complain then ?

Or should we just cock a snook and soldier on ?

I think people are missing the point by thinking the Americans want to ‘buy’ into the nhs. They want to increase what we pay for drugs. They tried the same thing with New Zealand recently. 

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2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

We want a Labour Party that can get in power.

Like nice centre ground hogging Brown and Miliband did (both of which, I should add, I supported and campaigned for)? Like middle-of-the-road, vote-haemorrhaging Jo Swinson?

2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You call Blair, Brown, and co traitors, but they and the Labour Party contained war mongers and NHS privatisers, not Socialists

FTFY

2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

You call Blair, Brown, and co traitors

Nope, never happened.

2 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

Get rid of Corbyn and co, and also rid the constituencys  of Momentum, then we may get a party capable of challenging the Tories.

Not sure what you mean but Momentum have been absolute <ovf censored> heroes this campaign. Sent over 100 down from Manchester to campaign in N-u-L, far more I'd guess than you've done.

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4 hours ago, philpvfc said:

You showed a link to some left wing looney mag which praised Labours economic manifesto and it was doable, yet if you looked at older posts from the same mag it was criticising the last Conservative budget asking how we can afford it. 

So not the right economists then? What about the 163 that wrote to the FT? Do you and Bill know better then them or are you just choosing to ignore this?

https://www.ft.com/content/d6f56834-0f78-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae

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27 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Like nice centre ground hogging Brown and Miliband did (both of which, I should add, I supported and campaigned for)? Like middle-of-the-road, vote-haemorrhaging Jo Swinson?

FTFY

Nope, never happened.

Not sure what you mean but Momentum have been absolute <ovf censored> heroes this campaign. Sent over 100 down from Manchester to campaign in N-u-L, far more I'd guess than you've done.

 

25 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

So not the right economists then? What about the 163 that wrote to the FT? Do you and Bill know better then them or are you just choosing to ignore this?

https://www.ft.com/content/d6f56834-0f78-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae

You make your point, you are happy obviously with Corbyn/Momentum etc. Enjoy your time in opposition you will be there for a long time.

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I don't think it's possible any longer for a Conservative politician to say anything truthful - on both sides of the Atlantic. 

They have discovered that it no longer seems to matter to their supporters as they, in turn, are more than happy to side with people whose association with the truth is non existent and who misrepresent facts, break the law, and mislead the queen. Integrity, principle and truthfulness is but a passing memory for Cummings, Johnson and the rest.

I'm yet to hear any of them defend their record of 10 years in government. All they have done for the most part is blame everyone else and repeat a few parrot like catch phrases, bending over backwards to avoid scrutiny, questioning and hustings wherever possible. 

No matter what you say about any of the opposition parties they have always turned up, given numerous interviews, done a multitude of walkabouts, and openly admitted all journalists to their morning briefings. The comparison has been stark.

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7 hours ago, philpvfc said:

When was the last time a manifesto was honoured? It’s all <ovf censored>.

That's a fair enough point, but perhaps a more important question is not necessarily what the specifics are to the extent that it should be obvious (if it is not) that a manifesto won't be implemented to the letter. (To my mind, that's where people screaming "Look how dangerous Corbyn is" are wrong - Labour simply wouldn't be able to implement everything they are proposing).

The intent, where it exists, is perhaps a better gauge of what intentions are. The Tory manifesto appears to have been written in lipstick on napkin - "get $hit done". At least the Labour manifesto has a goal behind it to improve society, regardless if they propose going about it in the best way or not.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

When private business invests in something they want a significant return on there money.  If you go take a look at the ex council care homes around the area and tell me if people are better looked after now than they were before they were sold off.  

So yes, we should cock a snook as you flipantly put it.  We should run a mile from private investment in the NHS.

None of these things should be for profit but profit is the only thing Tories are interested in, even at the cost of the countries most vulnerable. 

Everyone is interested in profit, the proceeds of profit make the world go around. How would any government implement anything if it wasn't for the taxes on profit. Whether it's big corporations,  small businesses or the profit ordinary working people get from trading their Labour for salary.

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Doesn’t matter if they make a large profit if they help the NHS and start funding what is a bottomless pit.

keep on as is and it won’t change, any Government need to come up with new ideas, just to keep throwing money at it won’t work and eventually the money will dry up.

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48 minutes ago, geosname said:

Everyone is interested in profit, the proceeds of profit make the world go around. How would any government implement anything if it wasn't for the taxes on profit. Whether it's big corporations,  small businesses or the profit ordinary working people get from trading their Labour for salary.

Well said--it's also profits that go towards the investments that make Nofinkea's and most others' pension funds!

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21 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

So why mention Corbyn's academic record? 

I'm genuinely interested (not saying that in any sneery way) in what Corbyn could have done to improve Labour's chances in Stoke. I think Central is tipped to remain Labour and I'd be unsurprised (although mighty relieved) if we get the other two too but, regardless, it's the Brexit vote that's making things difficult, isn't it? So, apart from positioning Labour as a pro-leave party, what could Jeremy Corbyn have done to improve the party's standing in Stoke?

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