General Erection - 12th December 2019

[geosname]

17 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

The terms of the withdrawal deal can be changed which affect trade, otherwise what is Johnson rabbiting on about. Brexit of course is a leap in the dark, or a jump off a cliff,  no guesses who will carry the can, it was their will.

It could be changed to include free movement trade etc..... but is that leaving or is it a choice between remain as we are or remain on crap terms.... that's the problem

[geosname]

26 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

I was talking about the PM`s position, present the facts and let the people decide. Referendums are rare events, direct and representative democracy do not mix as such. Countries that use them a lot have rules to avoid chaos.

But as a head of a party all leaders could draw a protest vote on their stance....

[Fosse69]

37 minutes ago, geosname said:

But as a head of a party all leaders could draw a protest vote on their stance....

True, but is their stance on a referendum important? It is the content that matters. Elections are also for parties, the leaders can be changed after the result.

[Jacko51]

3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Please explain

Can you remember what your internet speeds were 11 years ago? 

[For Us All]

4 hours ago, TheSage said:

The most successful post war government was the Labour Government of 1945. Hard for you to swallow that, I know, but it's a fact.

And why was that? It's because they introduced things like free health care, the NHS, and free education - national projects. And guess what? They worked and were successful. End of. Not up for debate.

People moaned about introducing the minimum wage (I imagine you did too) but look at how well that has done. 

A national education system, a national health care system, free public libraries and a free transport network. Blimey. What stupid ideas. They'll never catch on.

Free broadband across the country is a great idea and would be a national asset.

 

 

They weren't all that successful,they got voted out after one term,like most other Labour goverments (apart from New Labour of course).

[Jacko51]

2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Another lie that Labour created the NHS. Yes, it was under a Labour Government that the bill was finally passed but it was years in the making and the whole process of passing the bill actually started during Churchill’s reign who was a Conservative at the time.

So how is the fact Labour was responsible for the NHS a lie?  You may recall that Churchill actually changed parties as often as he changed his underpants.  First he was a Tory, then he was a Liberal, then he was a Tory again.  He was a Liberal at the time of the 1906 Liberal landslide which saw the beginnings of the welfare state in this country.  The Tories were in power for much of the period between the two world wars and did little or nothing to further implement a welfare state.  It was the Labour government of 1945 which introduced the concept of the government supporting its citizens from the cradle to the grave.  It was the Liberal, William Beveridge, whose report was the basis of this ideal.  The Tories had little to do with it and indeed, they were opposed to the concept of excessive government spending on welfare

[Jacko51]

13 minutes ago, For Us All said:

They weren't all that successful,they got voted out after one term,like most other Labour goverments (apart from New Labour of course).

You must be employed by the Tory Factchecker.  The Labour Party wasn't voted out after one term.  They actually won the 1950 election with a greater number of votes than they had received in 1945, 700,000 more than the Tories and with a majority of the seats. 

You are Boris Johnson in disguise and I claim my £5 reward.

[geosname]

34 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Can you remember what your internet speeds were 11 years ago? 

Was it still dial up 56kb?

[philpvfc]

21 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

So how is the fact Labour was responsible for the NHS a lie?  You may recall that Churchill actually changed parties as often as he changed his underpants.  First he was a Tory, then he was a Liberal, then he was a Tory again.  He was a Liberal at the time of the 1906 Liberal landslide which saw the beginnings of the welfare state in this country.  The Tories were in power for much of the period between the two world wars and did little or nothing to further implement a welfare state.  It was the Labour government of 1945 which introduced the concept of the government supporting its citizens from the cradle to the grave.  It was the Liberal, William Beveridge, whose report was the basis of this ideal.  The Tories had little to do with it and indeed, they were opposed to the concept of excessive government spending on welfare

First of all I never claimed it was a Conservative Government that introduced the NHS, all I said was that it was not Labour that came up with the NHS, the idea had being going on for years through many governments but yes it was finally introduced during a Labour Government yet they keep on claiming the NHS was a Labour creation which it was not.

[philpvfc]

21 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

You must be employed by the Tory Factchecker.  The Labour Party wasn't voted out after one term.  They actually won the 1950 election with a greater number of votes than they had received in 1945, 700,000 more than the Tories and with a majority of the seats. 

You are Boris Johnson in disguise and I claim my £5 reward.

Compare that to the 1.9 million extra that voted to leave then it was very close.

[geosname]

If it wasn't for Labour the NHS would not exist.

The Tories want to maintain what they see as the natural order of the class system.... total crap..... Labour want to bring down the Tories.... that's what politics seems to be about now.

There is a lot of talk about a fair society..... what's fair?..... it assumes life is fair, people are naturally fair therefore society should be fair..... it's total crap.

[For Us All]

6 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

You must be employed by the Tory Factchecker.  The Labour Party wasn't voted out after one term.  They actually won the 1950 election with a greater number of votes than they had received in 1945, 700,000 more than the Tories and with a majority of the seats. 

You are Boris Johnson in disguise and I claim my £5 reward.

Ok,I'll give you that one.So they actually won the 1950 election and managed to do another year in charge.

That must be some kind of record?

Where did they go wrong because they were then kept out for office for another thirteen years by the Conservatives?

[philpvfc]

They will be saying it was Labour that got us out of the EU in 70 years time should Labour win the election and we vote leave again on another referendum. Labour came up with the idea and it was all them.

[Fosse69]

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Can you remember what your internet speeds were 11 years ago? 

Yes the main restraint being copper cables, now our local cabinets use fibre optic cables from the local exchange, the main restraint for me is what I am willing to pay. Replacing the copper from the cabinets with fibre optic with give unlimited bandwidth for all practical purposes. Thus future proof unless there is something faster than light. Constraints  then are the electronics and network capacity supporting the content using the fibre optic distribution, which are changed as new facilities are developed.   So once the Nation is fully fibred there will no longer be a need to replace them expect when damaged on a premises basis.

[Fosse69]

1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

First of all I never claimed it was a Conservative Government that introduced the NHS, all I said was that it was not Labour that came up with the NHS, the idea had being going on for years through many governments but yes it was finally introduced during a Labour Government yet they keep on claiming the NHS was a Labour creation which it was not.

Labour 45 put ideas into practice, that is the difficult part,.