General Erection - 12th December 2019

[Fosse69]

1 hour ago, Bycarsbill said:

He also quite clearly lied when he said that Johnson's deal had only got through because the DUP voted with the government. Fact check: none of the DUP MPs voted for Johnson's deal--however 19 Labour MPs did! Misleading inaccuracy? Or, downright lie? Difficult to tell with Corbyn because clearly he's just so dim. However, I suspect your last sentence is probably an accurate assessment!

At least Corbyn did not sack them on the spot like Johnson did his MPs that defied him. Do as I say or go, I call that the actions of a dictator. 

[Fosse69]

10 hours ago, geosname said:

He can't negotiate a deal, he can only negotiate the divorce agreement..... the "DEAL" negotiations can only start after we have left..... that's "IF" the EU will renegotiate again.

I meant a new WA, cannot image the EU not dealing with a new PM, after all it would be the Will of the people to change its mind.

[Fosse69]

10 hours ago, geosname said:

Are you suggesting people voted on party lines in the referendum?

There was a protest content, against Cameron, against austerity, against London, apart from the silly ones like the Eurovision Song Contest and the Champions League.

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

I meant a new WA, cannot image the EU not dealing with a new PM, after all it would be the Will of the people to change its mind.

But jezza can't "present" a new deal to the people because it won't be the deal so it's impossible for the people to make a decision on the deal..... only the withdrawal agreement... I could understand the argument if he could offer the people the final deal..... trade etc...... but he can't.

Refering back to the house purchase analogy........ you can buy this house for £× but you can't see it, you can't survey it, you can't even know where it is but it's the best we could get......  do you want to buy it?..... the answer is loaded heavily towards NO

[geosname]

1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

There was a protest content, against Cameron, against austerity, against London, apart from the silly ones like the Eurovision Song Contest and the Champions League.

So political parties should not be involved because there may be a protest vote against their position?

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, TheSage said:

The most successful post war government was the Labour Government of 1945. Hard for you to swallow that, I know, but it's a fact.

And why was that? It's because they introduced things like free health care, the NHS, and free education - national projects. And guess what? They worked and were successful. End of. Not up for debate.

People moaned about introducing the minimum wage (I imagine you did too) but look at how well that has done. 

A national education system, a national health care system, free public libraries and a free transport network. Blimey. What stupid ideas. They'll never catch on.

Free broadband across the country is a great idea and would be a national asset.

 

 

t it isn't "free" it has to be paid for out of public funds and who pays for those? US!

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

You would have campaigned against the forming of the NHS if you were around back then. Are people so stupid that they can't tell the difference between spending and investing?

I was around back then. I was born before the NHS's inception. On what basis can you possibly claim that I "would have campaigned against the NHS"?  Come on Mr. H you can do better than resort to mud-slinging and silly, childish name calling--I thought you were better than that?

[philpvfc]

Another lie that Labour created the NHS. Yes, it was under a Labour Government that the bill was finally passed but it was years in the making and the whole process of passing the bill actually started during Churchill’s reign who was a Conservative at the time.

So never in the history of politics has the most successful Government been under Labour, end of debate.

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Birth-of-the-NHS/

[Bycarsbill]

2 hours ago, Heatwave said:

I would imagine that all the jobs at Openreach, Virgin etc. would be transferred to the new undertaker under the present day TUPE arrangements - assuming that we don't tear up the TUPE Directive if we leave the EU. As for a reduction in business start ups I fail to understand what in Labour's plans would cause this to happen. 

Bill, why do you choose to call Labour 'Marxist'? I'm not aware that Corbyn is advocating the central control of all economic activity; as I understand it he's just saying that certain functions would be better off undertaken by the government.

Or are you so ignorant of what such terms actually mean that you just choose to throw them in as insults?

"Ignorance" seems to be a little one-sided here and it's certainly not on this side of the fence! Corbyn, McDonnell have always had, and still have Marxist leanings and Momentum is being run by John Lansdown who was a member of the Communist party! Even some of McDonnell's latest plans are singularly "marxist" in shape.

As for your child-like comments about all the jobs within the communications industrybeing transferred to the nationalised internet provider.  This only goes to prove your lack of economic understanding!

[Bycarsbill]

1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

At least Corbyn did not sack them on the spot like Johnson did his MPs that defied him. Do as I say or go, I call that the actions of a dictator. 

I would call it the action of a decisive leader--something that Corbyn will never ever be accused of.  Just ask the Jewish Labour MPs!!!

[Fosse69]

5 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Another lie that Labour created the NHS. Yes, it was under a Labour Government that the bill was finally passed but it was years in the making and the whole process of passing the bill actually started during Churchill’s reign who was a Conservative at the time.

So never in the history of politics has the most successful Government been under Labour, end of debate.

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Birth-of-the-NHS/

The war time government was a coalition one, Churchill PM, Attlee DPM, the people gave their judgement in 1945 on who was the better to lead us into a new world.

[mr.hobblesworth]

14 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

resort to mud-slinging and silly, childish name calling

Marxist

Anti-Semite

IRA supporter

Friend of Hamas.

 

[Fosse69]

30 minutes ago, geosname said:

So political parties should not be involved because there may be a protest vote against their position?

I was talking about the PM`s position, present the facts and let the people decide. Referendums are rare events, direct and representative democracy do not mix as such. Countries that use them a lot have rules to avoid chaos.

[Fosse69]

43 minutes ago, geosname said:

But jezza can't "present" a new deal to the people because it won't be the deal so it's impossible for the people to make a decision on the deal..... only the withdrawal agreement... I could understand the argument if he could offer the people the final deal..... trade etc...... but he can't.

Refering back to the house purchase analogy........ you can buy this house for £× but you can't see it, you can't survey it, you can't even know where it is but it's the best we could get......  do you want to buy it?..... the answer is loaded heavily towards NO

The terms of the withdrawal deal can be changed which affect trade, otherwise what is Johnson rabbiting on about. Brexit of course is a leap in the dark, or a jump off a cliff,  no guesses who will carry the can, it was their will.

[TheSage]

27 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Another lie that Labour created the NHS. Yes, it was under a Labour Government that the bill was finally passed but it was years in the making and the whole process of passing the bill actually started during Churchill’s reign who was a Conservative at the time.

So never in the history of politics has the most successful Government been under Labour, end of debate.

 

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Birth-of-the-NHS/

The NHS was created by a Conservative Government! Blimey. Cummings and Rabb and Johnson should employ you in double quick time. 

Fake news is alive and well.

But the main point I was making was that nationalising common interests like health, public libraries, schools, roads and yes broadband can work well for everyone in the country and can be good things if they are funded and managed properly. 

I'm aware where the money comes from. It's from the same pot that saw Grayling waste over £30 billion when he was a minister, the £5 billion to bribe the DUP, and the tens of millions the government squandered on non existent ferries, coins and adverts.