General Erection - 12th December 2019

[TheSage]

Phil, I hate to tell you this but you need to check the reliability of your sources.

Now you're quoting - what's it called, Chocolate Teapot?  My word.  An obscure right wing blogger doesn't like the Labour Party. There's a surprise. The Pope is Catholic. Hard to believe. 

Johnson shouldn't even be in office. He broke the law and lied to the Queen. That one misdemeanour alone should have ended his political career.

Arguably the most successful government we've ever had was Atlee's 45-51 socialist government so don't tell us that socialist governments can't work. But I guess back then you'd have voted against the NHS and against free education. Another nasty communist plot to undermine us all? 

 

 

 

[Heatwave]

19 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

I wasn’t use Socialism as a term of abuse. If you want to be a socialist you be a socialist, I won’t hold it against you but tell me where in the world socialism is successful.

It would be nice to see where socialism has been tried. Soviet Russia, Cuba and Venezuela were not in my opinion socialist states as they used oppression rather than the winning of hearts and minds to further their cause. Still less China, which in addition to the above had its backward policies on population while suppressing any form of public expression such as religion. 

Invariably where socialist policies have been implemented they have been opposed by those who wish to retain the status quo, usually but not exclusively those that lost their exalted position within society which they achieved through money and 'knowing the right people'. Add to that economic crises caused almost exclusively by the lack of checks and balances on capitalist activities - the crashes of 1929 and 2008 are prime examples - and it's been difficult in the extreme to maintain any drive to economic reform.

Don't get me wrong - there is a place for private enterprise in any economy that employs mixed private and public enterprises and may even be desirable. In all the years I spent as a public servant I could not have functioned without some input from the private sector. But it should not be the be all and end all of economic life.

[Heatwave]

16 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Phil, I hate to tell you this but you need to check the reliability of your sources.

Now you're quoting - what's it called, Chocolate Teapot?  My word.  An obscure right wing blogger doesn't like the Labour Party. There's a surprise. The Pope is Catholic. Hard to believe. 

Johnson shouldn't even be in office. He broke the law and lied to the Queen. That one misdemeanour alone should have ended his political career.

Arguably the most successful government we've ever had was Atlee's 45-51 socialist government so don't tell us that socialist governments can't work. But I guess back then you'd have voted against the NHS and against free education. Another nasty communist plot to undermine us all? 

 

 

 

Attlee had his detractors too, mostly those who had most to lose from his reforms (see my post above) but ultimately he lost the 1951 election because wartime rationing had not been ended. And given the terms on which Marshall Aid was given by the Americans it's not surprising - we only paid off the debt in 2005. Like I said, it's those with most to lose from economic reforms that oppose them.

[mr.hobblesworth]

2 hours ago, philpvfc said:

https://medium.com/@takooba/the-mounting-lies-of-jeremy-corbyn-56b0c5e739e3

 

Seriously? Is that the best you can do? He didn't mention going to poly? Half of those aren't even lies from Corbyn, unlike the following from you..

Quote

has always been an IRA ...sympathiser

 

IRA sympathiser there, condemning the IRA.

 

[Regal Beagle]

2 hours ago, TheSage said:

Phil, I hate to tell you this but you need to check the reliability of your sources.

Now you're quoting - what's it called, Chocolate Teapot?  My word.  An obscure right wing blogger doesn't like the Labour Party. There's a surprise. The Pope is Catholic. Hard to believe. 

Johnson shouldn't even be in office. He broke the law and lied to the Queen. That one misdemeanour alone should have ended his political career.

Arguably the most successful government we've ever had was Atlee's 45-51 socialist government so don't tell us that socialist governments can't work. But I guess back then you'd have voted against the NHS and against free education. Another nasty communist plot to undermine us all? 

 

 

 

6 years of socialism working is the best you can do? 

Every socialist country fails eventually. Corbyn is ramping up the chance of failure by openly trying to grab power however he can. That should be decades down the line. 

 

[Regal Beagle]

2 hours ago, Heatwave said:

I've never thought the term 'socialist' a term of abuse Phil; when did it become so outside of the pages of the Daily Mail?

If wanting to help those in need is socialism, if making taxation fairer and related to the ability to pay is socialism, if public ownership of the facilities like water and power we need for modern life is socialism, then I'm happy to describe myself as a socialist.

Socialism isnt many of those things though.

It would be great if socialism worked, everyone would be a socialist. But it doesn't. 

The scariest thought of all is that not only do socialists want jezbollah to be PM, they then want to give him far more power than Boris currently has. 

This is despite the same people using a techincal constitutionally unlawful act of Boris as a stick to beat him with. 

 

[Bycarsbill]

22 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Ignore Russia as unlikely to nuke, but a minor rogue state would have suffered retaliation by allies, if Trident failed to respond. There is no time for meetings.

That's my point- Labour's stance is farcicle!

[Bycarsbill]

19 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Introduced in 2000, there is now nearly 10 times more Trussell food banks in the U.K. than there was in 2010.

Do you really think the growth will decrease under a Labour Government?

Under a Labour government there would undoubtedly be many thousand more unemployed people who presumably will be adding to the numbers using foodbanks?

[Bycarsbill]

20 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

In my opinion Bill, national security should be the first name on the team sheet when it comes to Government. It's literally the main reason and trumps everything else.

 

I couldn't agree more.  That's precisely one of the main reasons why the prospect of Corbyn and his cronies in power fills me with sheer dread!

[mr.hobblesworth]

3 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Under a Labour government there would undoubtedly be many thousand more unemployed people who presumably will be adding to the numbers using foodbanks?

How would there? We're pledging to actually invest in the country - 320,00 green apprenticeships announced just yesterday - and do away with one of the major reasons that people need to use foodbank; in-work poverty. Another cause is Universal Credit. 

[cheshirevaliant]

4 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Agree but so many believe Corbyn a man of the people ( for the many). He is no different, just a Socialist who will screw us all over if he ever has power.

Right, so just to clarify "man educated by the state" is no different to "man educated at Eton" in terms of their education?

[Bycarsbill]

1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Seriously? Is that the best you can do? He didn't mention going to poly? Half of those aren't even lies from Corbyn, unlike the following from you..

 

IRA sympathiser there, condemning the IRA.

 

Wow--you'll be having him canonised soon--St. Jeremy or should it be The "Angel" Islington.  Not sure it has the right sort of ring to that though!

[mr.hobblesworth]

Oh, FFS. You and your lot come out with a load of lies, repeatedly, about Corbyn. I counter those lies with FACTS and all you can do is sneer and come out with the BS above. I've been very respectful towards you in the past but that's just <ovf censored> behaviour more worthy of the forum dunces.

[geosname]

Socialism in its extreme does not work...... capitalism in its extreme does not work..... is it so difficult to contemplate that something in the middle might work?

[For Us All]

1 hour ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

How would there? We're pledging to actually invest in the country - 320,00 green apprenticeships announced just yesterday - and do away with one of the major reasons that people need to use foodbank; in-work poverty. Another cause is Universal Credit. 

What is Labour's alternative to UC?